Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Gary Baigent, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. captainsideburn
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    captainsideburn Junior Member

    heheh, sorry about that :p

    I guess I was wondering if the possible increased building complexity of the swiveling mechanism would have a realistic offset in actually launching her. I mean the swiveling mechanism should provide a significant time benefit over traditional beam attachment methods. If it doesn't allow the boat to be launched, sailed and recovered on the same day is it worth it?
    Then again all beam attachment methods are pretty complex at that size anyway.
    Personally, I'm not necessarily looking for a boat that is that quick to launch because I intend mooring through the sailing season so I don't have to worry about launching.
    Thats not to say I don't think its a cool idea though :D

    on second thoughts, if it has a major ease of launching benefit even if no time benefit that would be significant too
     
  2. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    bigger boats

    Gary, this is turning into quite the yacht:rolleyes: maybe you can find room for a couple of big aluminum pipes and I would feel quite at home. :) bruce
     
  3. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Gary said :- "Have been drawing full size the beam bearing and locking pins and rod water stay attachments to beam and hull, essential things but too boring to post."

    Technical items like that are never too boring to post, IMHO. :eek:
     
  4. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    This will be the last of the pretty pictures - have spread the gunwhales further and put more flare above the waterline, which allows for a broader and thicker beam base. Now is the time to start building the strongback ... otherwise I might be accused of being like other fantasy dwellers .... a small few of whom reside here lurking under bridges. Cheers.
     

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  5. captainsideburn
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    captainsideburn Junior Member

    well, hope you will post photos as you go along :)
    have fun too
     
  6. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Now it's looking more like a boat----------Er !! A flying boat :?: :?:
     
  7. Samnz
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    Samnz Senior Member

    you wont need a strong back for tortured ply tho right? do use a different method from how they build the old tornados?

    Just one polite question, has a foiling Tri ever beaten a Buccaneer in an actual race?

    in fact has a foiling tri ever won any race ever?

    Also could my Missus stand up in it? it was one of the winning features of my Bucc.

    awesome project Gary, I will have to pop over for a look, please keep posting pics of design progress and build!!!!
     
  8. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    hey Sam, you know how fast Harry is when you disappeared astern so far you were out of sight in the Green Death Machine - admittedly a bit before you B24 became the 100% GDM.
    Actually what I do with tensioned ply is not quite true tensioned ply, sort of 50/50 because the ply is bent in 2 sides from the keelson over bulheads and to the gunwhales (that is building upside down using a strong back). The Tornadoes were built with the 2 sides joined at the keelson with glass tape and then forced into a jig and the bulkheads pushed (gently) in later. I've built that way but find the 50/50 way easier.
    Dick Newick shouted down a telephone once, "Do you think I design boats for your WIFE??" Not a bad philosophy. I guess if I was designing for the NZ 8.5 boxy rule, which I'm not, then I'd think differently ... which I don't.
     
  9. captainsideburn
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    captainsideburn Junior Member

    woohoo sounds like we have a race cooking, I wish I could be there to see it :)
     
  10. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Sam, a word in your shell-like ear: one of the earliest foil trimarans in New Zealand was/and is, Max Purnell's 36 foot Newick designed Mokihi ... and I've spent many miles aboard that boat ... and designed and built the foils and rudder for it too. Mokihi won or placed always highly in races, the most notable being line honours in a Coastal Classic and the same in the Multihull Round White Island Race. And that was 25 (or more, gasp) years ago, something of which, you may have been ignorant. Also Miranda with foils took numbers of handicap (admittedly) wins and she is a pretty old boat now too. Also Bernard Rhodes put foils on Klis 111 many years ago and that boat's performance raised eyebrows too. Here's a jpeg of Mokihi with foils lifted - you can see the foil slot in the starboard ama.
     

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  11. Samnz
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    Samnz Senior Member

    I have asked Gary many many times to come and join in our regular club racing on either of his foilers but he never has. Hopefully he will come and prove his boats speed one day
     
  12. Samnz
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    Samnz Senior Member

    This is true Gary but there was only 3 knots of wind, and there was no set course, start or finish line so it wasnt really a race.

    its sad but true that most guys either want to take their families sailing, or (more likely) have to get the Missus to say "yes" to the new boat. A boat you can take your missus away for a night in relative comfort will allways be a winner! :)

    Im not saying foilers are slow, and im not having a go at you but Im really interested if there has ever been a sucessfull foiling tri (not foil assisted, full foiler like Flash harry with the small sinky amas)?

    I have read of plenty of unsuccessfull ones, just like the Proa crowd. they talk about how fast they are but they never win any races.
     
  13. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Fair enough question Sam, about small float foilers. But first Flash Harry is really a foil stabilized tri and will fly only in fresh winds, same with G. Marx; they are not like foiler Moths lifting off in the lightest breezes.
    Top of the list of small float foilers has to be l'Hydroptere, world's fastest yacht, or world's fastest sailing anything. But today the fashion is for long float foilers but 2 or 3 decades ago, small float versions had very successful results, namely Ker Cadillac 1 and 11, Ker Marine, Paul Ricard, Cote d'Or, Sebago/We, Promoceon, Hydrofolie, Gautier 11 and 111, Region Nord Pas Calais, and numerous others. Even the modern Irens 100 footers Idec and SodeBo are quite small float tris - and SodeBo and Idec are fitting/already have fitted, foils this year. Loick Peyron won a Quebec St. Malo in the Lombard foil tri, the original 75 foot Ker Cadillac 11 and Poupon won one of the Atlantic races in another 75 foot but also small float Irens tri Fleury Michon 8, and many agreed that this was truly one of the most beautiful tris built. That is an aesthetic thing, small float tris are exciting visual displays, just IMO of course. Most recently the Irens designs, both of whom hold the singlehanded fastest days run and world circumnavigation records (although without foils)... are changing so don't rule out the small float version foilers coming back into fashion. Peyron has a large ocean race version on his mind too and published very interesting drawings.
    jpegs of two successful Lombard foiler designs, the first one still racing, and setting fast times today. Ker Cadillac 11/Lada Poch beat all the 85 foot maxi cats in one of the Atlantic races.
     

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  14. Samnz
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    Samnz Senior Member

    wow thanks for the pictures. amazing how different those tris are to some modern designs like the seacart 30 with no foils but 300% floats which almost make it a cat. I think from what i have read that the foilers may suffer in a seaway but be faster in flat water? or are they only good reaching but not so good upwind?

    By the way I think the swivelling single beam is a great idea. if you could make it swivel on the water to fit into a marina berth (and stay upright) it could be a breakthru design.
     

  15. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Two very exciting looking Tris, Gary. :D
     
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