Alternative Propulsion And Hulls

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by spiel_mit_feuer, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. spiel_mit_feuer
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    spiel_mit_feuer Junior Member

    riva, im not sure LPG would be a good idea, the efficiency would decrease and youre not getting any benefits on the price or availability of the fuel, i wouldnt even use that in a car, ill have to build a small pontoon boat/cat to test on, should make a decent fishing boat too :-D
     
  2. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "its impossible to do something thats never been done" attitude

    Especially with no background , no interest in learning from the current literature what the current "state of the Art" actually is , and certainly without bushel baskets of hard cash , and a few years of work.

    Talking about the Desirements of an unobtainable (this decade) goal may be loads of fun , as Mental ************.

    But it sure doesn't get anyone closer to cruising.

    YOU must decide what your interest in boating actually IS.

    Underway, in a great boat operating as well as can be done after 5000 years of practical folks worked it out ,

    or cursing the rotten luck that a modern efficient (in your eyes) boat cant push the envelope with out its weight in Gold being spent.

    There is NO board that can create, for you , what doesn't yet exist , should you prefer to go cruising , in this lifetime.

    Good Luck,

    FF
     
  3. gosurfun
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    gosurfun New Member

    gosurfun

    If you spent a small amount of time doing a little research it would soon become apparent that diesel electric has been used for marine propulsion since about 1914. Submarines have used it and still do. You will not be the first or the last to use this method! Try listening to a lot of good free!!! advice, or prove everyone else wrong and go broke doing it.
     
  4. Psychobikerbill
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    Psychobikerbill New Member

    and since salt water is quite electrically conductive, i probably wouldnt need to use potassium hydroxide to increase conductivity of the water..

    Everything I've read says that salt water is not a good idea- it gives off Chlorine gas.. I finally got to building one of these units and use baking soda. I just set it up on my van and it really helped with making more power and smoothing the engine out (yeah, yeah- a tune up would have done the same thing- I know :) ) I have yet to take it out to check fuel economy.. Too bad I built too small of a unit to use as a sole fuel source- that will come along when I have the money. Wish me luck!
     
  5. Matt.D
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    Matt.D Junior Member

    A water cell will give u 3 gases, If u can achive stage 3 production (Orgone)then u can use a very small amount to fersh water to go a long way! Loads more efficient than diesel but vert tempremental, not the best if ur half way across the Pacific. maybe then use ur electric motors then.
    DONT USE SALT WATER it will destory ur cell!
    Smaller call the better u dont want to be producing more of any gass then u need!!! A BIG BANG! out on the water wouldnt be good either! How many plates r u runing?
    Best use some old style v8 car inboards they seem to run best
    Matt D
     
  6. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Matt,

    What exactly are you talking about? Are you electrolyzing water?

    Electrolyzing one mole of fresh water gives you one mole of hydrogen gas and half a mole of oxygen gas. If you're electrolyzing salt water, you'll get some chlorine gas too.

    The energy you release by reacting the hydrogen and the oxygen- no matter how you react them- will always be less than the energy you had to put in to split the water apart in the first place. Hence why, in the context of "hydrogen economy" discussions, there is such an enormous emphasis on large-scale, distributed electricity production via wind, solar, etc. so that we would have an enormous supply of cheap electricity to make all this viable.

    If, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, you are trying to run an IC engine on hydrogen, you are getting into difficult and expensive territory. If you're trying to generate the hydrogen using electricity from the engine's alternator, and actually believe you are getting some benefit, then it's time to go back to basics and sit down with a book and a thermodynamics prof.
     
  7. Matt.D
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    Matt.D Junior Member

    I think we r talking about 2 seperate cells here mate u r on the path of a hyd cell i was referring to a Joe cell. One water is charged (+tve) before u use it in the cell then no voltage is needed to induce Orgone Enegy out of the water so no u wont need to use the altenator. We r talking slightly beyond basic Thermodynamics. And a little in depth to explain in a few short sentencens. Google Joe Cell or visit u tube to view video.
     
  8. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    OK, so you're talking about a magical free energy device accumulating 'orgone energy' from the infamous 'luminiferous aether', generating an endothermic implosion which makes the engine levitate by antigravity. It doesn't consume any of its feed water, but somehow makes three gases appear out of nowhere. A few reports say that it doesn't work when "individuals with highly negative emotions or personality or character" are nearby. And the reason we don't see more of them is because the Illuminati and the Fabian Socialists are manipulating the top ranks of academia.

    Because that's what comes up if you look for a "Joe cell" on the Web. And if you look for it in scientific literature.... well, nothing.

    If a new technology is real, and works, then someone, somewhere, must have the test data to prove it. And if the people with these marvellous new ideas were serious about promoting them, that test data would be readily available. But what there is, is a closed, secretive community that is openly hostile to anyone who dares to ask how or why their mystery devices work.

    So I come to the conclusion that it's bull, because nobody who actually seems to know what these devices do is willing to present any real evidence to the contrary.
     
  9. Matt.D
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    Matt.D Junior Member

    Well if u say so mate! but i wouldnt believe it my self if i hadnt talked to him and seen it myself and now have a cell that has produced stage 3 for 2 months and 3 days now.
    But hey, if uve worked it all out in 10mins of net surfing then the 30 odd cars driving around just south of the boarder here in oz must be all just rolling up and down hills on there own. And this is the bigest farse since cold fusion !
    But keep reading basic thermodynamic books and then when ur done get out in the shed and start on so prac u will be suprized what u will learn with so hands on!
    And instead of replying to this post with more quick whit perhaps try digging a little deeper into a lot of articals written on the topic they r realy not that hard to find.
     
  10. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Matt,

    I think that if someone has really found a new energy source, that would be a huge advancement for physics, engineering and economics. And I'd really like to find out more about just what is going on in these devices.

    As a physicist, I am quite certain that there is a lot more to the universe than we understand at present. Indeed, the "normal" matter and "normal" energy we are familiar with are now known to comprise some 4% of the total universe. The rest, we don't know, and I have many friends who are working to improve our understanding of dark energy, dark matter, and whatever else makes up the remaining 96%.

    Where I take issue with these so-called "free energy" devices is that people build them, claim that they work, claim that the reason they work is because of some mystical new energy, and then become openly hostile when anyone asks how they work, what this new energy is, where it comes from, etc. If it is a real, reproducible effect, it should be possible, through careful measurements with sufficiently accurate equipment, to determine how much energy is being produced, in what form. I have not been able to find any such information for any "free energy" device that is not self-contradictory.

    I have even read claims that the "Joe cell" device draws on the telepathic energy of people near it, and will shut down if anyone with negative or skeptical emotions is nearby.

    Our current scientific paradigm allows for new ideas, new explorations, and things that don't fit in with the current theory. I know a few folks who, a few years ago, blew a giant hole in the Standard Model and forced a major rewrite of a large part of subatomic particle physics. But to call for a change in the scientific paradigm requires accurate data and a feasible explanation for what is happening.

    If anyone has an actual theory for how a "Joe cell" works, I will read it. But as a scientist, I expect to see strong evidence to substantiate strong claims.

    So, if you can offer any information on what is really happening, I would love to see it. Who knows- you may be on to something revolutionary. But I'm not interested in unsubstantiated claims, and I doubt many others here are either.
     
  11. Matt.D
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    Matt.D Junior Member

    Matt M, i couldnt agree more, the theroy of Orgone energy has been around for a while as for it being free energy, well technically its not as u have to charge the water first and ur using power to do that not to mention all the time and effort u put in and sometimes wasted ask anyone who has experimented with ant sicence project he will tell u that it always cost money.
    Their is a lot of self contradictory info out there. that is if u read some of the articals written by a couple of would be proffesers down south and as for the quote that "negitive emotions kill the cell" well i havnt found that yet but i believe that its much likr the ouote " money doesnt buy happiness" spoken by the person that has none to justify not having any! I think the 'neg emotions" iis a get out of jail free card for not succeeding!
    I dont agree with all that is spoken on the topic, i dont believe the joe is the inventer of the joe cell aas there is too many holes in the practice of his cell work to be the man behind it.
    ( hence why i perfer to referr to it as a water cell no a joe cell.)
    and by reading some of the info out there then would be put off even trying to build one as just the water that is ment to be used is almost unitainable! There is no proff that it is an implostion either other then joes say so.

    The only reason that i mentioned it in the first place was that "psychobikerbill" touched on the subject of hyd cell in his post and i thought he might have been trying to build a water cell.
    Will keep u posted u may be a good bloke to bounce some theroys off.
    Matt
     
  12. Tcubed
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    Tcubed Boat Designer

    The DIY electrolyzer which creates brown' s gas which then gets fed into the carburettor supposedly increasing MPG does at first glance seem to be a free lunch scam.

    It takes energy to produce the gas and the energy returned by burning it must be less due to inevitable losses of any energy system.

    But, what if it does actually improve MPG and there is actually more to it than meets the eye? Just speculating here, but is it at all possible burning HHO along with the Gasoline vapor makes the gasoline combust better?

    I'm sure someone here can answer that and settle in my mind if there is any chance the claims made might be true.
     
  13. Matt.D
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    Matt.D Junior Member

    Yes it does make for a better burn and when feed into the air intake ahead of the o2 senser ur ecu will adjust the fuel input accordingly and will give a better mpg but it is a little hard on the engine as the hyd. burns a lot faster and hotter, browns gas is not hyd. is is often refered to as "eithier" wich is one of the 3 by-prod gass of electrolises.
     
  14. divinesd
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    divinesd Divine service & design

    Hybride Propulsion

    Hybride Propulsion in combination with fuel-cell technology will increase propulsion with 10%. Unless you use air-conditioning you won't make it. Complete system saves approximately 40% of weight regarding a direct-diesel system. All these energy systems are calculated by Mastervolt, Victron etc etc.
    Best tip I can give is; Save as much weight as possible, make sure you can go as fast as possible and limit your needs on equipment. For example: If you want to built a 30ft boat one can easily use an outboard for propulsion. Then you have no appendages on the hull. Charge your "gel" batteries with solar energy. But most important use a windarm for autopilot at open waters. I hope this all makes sense. :D
     

  15. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Windvane pilot
    Multihull is fast

    up to what speed before getting lost you think ?


    And honestly, never seen windvane pilot on a quick multihull and been told several times it wasn't adapted to fast boat with a lot of apparent wind...is it true ? , more info somewhere ?
     
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