alternate perfect passagemaker ideas

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by magwas, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. taniwha
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    taniwha Senior Member

  2. taniwha
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    taniwha Senior Member

    Yes If I had loads of cash I could afford to put a rig on my boat and sail "free" from A to B while still having an engine below. For the time being all I can afford is a 48 ft for two people and no crew, burning heaps of oil because it is a lot cheaper than a rig, sails, winches, furling gears, sail blocks.....
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Exactly..........

    And two crew is not the exemption, it is the "rule" on almost every boat in the 80 ft range you see on the barefoot route. Owners couple and sometimes (on rare occasions) two friends. Only when you look above 100ft you see regular crew (as few as possible though).

    But what does our armchair sailor know about the barefoot route.........
    ..or cost of passagemaking.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  4. magwas
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    magwas Senior Member

    Whoa, a thread on my name which I do not remember to start, and it is so long already:)

    I am absolutely sure that I uncertain about the subject. Let me see:

    Trailerable trimaran. Yes, it is not perfect for passage making. But I live at some 700 km from the nearest sea, and 100 km from the nearest sizeable lake. I am thinking of something around the lines of F-24, but maybe 28-30 feet, and the amas are stored under the main hull. This way the main hull can have a big block coefficient, which may help reducing tunnelling effect. I think it could be designed to be suitable for four persons for two weeks.

    Classic monohull. There are very nice and functional ones around there. Brent boat, Hanse, Nautica, v/d Stadt, etc. I think the boat is built from steel, and have more masts. If I would be blatantly rich, I would build a classical tall ship.

    Cat. (I like cats, they are purring nicely.) My dream cat have twin unstayed masts, and wears fishbone junk rigging.

    One is for sure: the perfect passagemaker have sails (the more mast, the better), and class A not just barely. (I was shocked to figure out that Elan 36 have a door -quality of a wardrobe door - in its aft collision bulkhead. At least on the thing which I would design as a watertight collision bulkhead. Well, maybe quick repair of the cockpit shower (cockpit shower?!? why?) is a priority for some, but I am not amongst them.)
     
  5. magwas
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    magwas Senior Member

    You basically say you cannot afford a 48 footer. Then go for a smaller one. There are experienced sailors out there who say that a liveaboard for two persons need not be bigger than 33-36ft. One of the reasons is that anything bigger needs too heavy rigging to be handled by one person, and the gear is much heavily priced.
    I cannot buy the argument that burning heaps of oil is cheaper than buying the rigging.
    You can try to show me calculations of TCO for one circumnavigation with motor vs sail.
    And even if you manage to come out with a lower figure for motor, I will insist on counting the externalia, like CO emission, pollution, and dead iraqi people.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    This thread is a division from my original passagemaker thread, produced by the Admin.

    Your statements here show pretty much your complete ignorance on the topic "passagemaker".

    How can we call a trailerable vessel passagemaker?

    Where are "Brent boats" or Hanse boats passagemakers? The former is not even a good coastal cruiser.

    Of course a passagemaker is a class A boat, what else?

    And of course it is NOT a sailboat in any case, depends on your SOR.
    There are more capable motorboats on passages than sailboats!

    C A P A B L E.................. not sufficient!

    You should have tried to learn more from Ad Hoc when he gave you private lessons, before you make blatant statements about a topic you hardly understand.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. magwas
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    magwas Senior Member

    Richard,

    I am not insisting on hiring regular crew. I say that 80 ft is way too much for two people.

    And please try to change your style. I could also waste some personal remarks on you but it would lead nowhere.
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You are just wrong, by no means is a 80ft boat too large for a skilled couple, go sailing around the world and you will meet them. period

    Sorry for bothering you,
    but blatant statements of one who is completely unfamiliar with the topic are a PITA, and have to be treated as such.
    You obviously never sailed a longer trip on the open oceans, obviously never owned and operated anything larger than a day boat.
    But you make claims as if you would know what you are talking.

    These are not personal remarks, just getting the facts straight, and avoiding that novices take your comments for serious.

    Halali
     
  9. magwas
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    magwas Senior Member

    I clearly stated that I would not call a trailerable vessel a perfect passagemaker.
    But it is a good illustration on how widely personal circumstances and preferences can alter the optimal choice of boat.

    I have said that class A is not a good enough sign whether a boat is actually sturdy enough for open ocean. Try to understand what I have said.

    It is not a kindergarden. A good engineer can show its qualities in an argument without personal insults, especially without ones toward someone who is not there. Please behave like an adult.
     
  10. magwas
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    magwas Senior Member

    And you will also meet those who circumnavigate in thirtysomething footers, and very seriously insist that anything bigger is not just money thrown out the window, but actually dangerous.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest


    Well you make it a Kindergarten now.

    Where are the insults towards someone who is not here?
    And I am not "a good engineer" btw. I am a good boatbuilder and experienced sailor.:D


    What a unbelievable nonsense....you really try to make yourself a clown, and you do successful..........
    Length is speed, and speed is safety, amateur. Go sailing, sail the world for some 40 years and come back.

    But how would you understand what does not fit in your well founded preconception:


    senseless to teach the blind colours...........
     
  12. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thanks Pierre,

    a perfect way to sink your money! Such a rebuild will cost twice the amount of a newbuild boat!
    I would refuse taking her when offered for free and with a million on top.

    ....but we are hijacking this thread....
     
  14. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member


  15. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Oh... I think I would accept. Then I would give her away for free. ;)
     
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