Alexseal vs. Awlgrip

[grady]

He Guys, Just posting a General question.

I recently lost my access to good pricing on Awlgrip products.

But can get decent pricing on the Alexseal line.

assuming prep is the same.....are there a techniques that are inherently different between the two?

also assuming that the ratios will be different paint/catalyst/reducer based on formulation.
so anyone with real world experience spraying both??

Thank so much

TonyG

PS. I have experience spraying Awlgrip/Awlcraft/Imron industrial line (different than marine line)
have seen great results using Alexseal.... just gathering intel have 2 boats to paint in the spring.

 

[grady]

Okay.......so should I rephrase the question? Or assume either no one has ever used both products in the same lifetime, or
there is no interest in this particular topic.

Thank you

TonyG

 

[grady]

Should I move this into another sub-forum?

Paint is usually a hot topic.

Thanks

 

[fallguy]

I have no experience spraying, but attempted rolling awlgrip. It is designed for spraying, but their marketing department got involved. I call it awfulgrip now. Only because the primer is awful and not tippable, but I tried tipping it!

 

[grady]

Ah....Thx for the response.

don't short change the product though......the 545 epoxy primer is a excellent primer.

It does a great job of locking down the substrate and promoting adhesion for the topcoat.

I've never tried to roll it...but thought they had brushing reducers for their whole line.

Thanks again.

Best of luck

TonyG

 

[fallguy]

Ah....Thx for the response.

don't short change the product though......the 545 epoxy primer is a excellent primer.

It does a great job of locking down the substrate and promoting adhesion for the topcoat.

I've never tried to roll it...but thought they had brushing reducers for their whole line.

Thanks again.

Best of luck

TonyG

the 545 brushing reducer gave me a 3 second wet edge at max rates....we could not keep a wet edge on a tiny little 13 foot Boston Whaler

 

[grady]

Geez, sorry to hear that.

Funny one of the boats I'm planning on painting is a 13' BW

leaning toward Alexseal......just to switch it up a little.

Just trying to gather some intel

Thanks

TonyG

 

[grady]

Happy Friday All, Well I might as well pass on my findings although it doesn't appear that too many people are interested.

But just to log it all in one point of reference. So it sounds like the application is similar but different.....we'll get into that in a moment.

The properties are also similar with DOI, and repair ability going in Alexsel's favor. The gloss mostly coming from an improved formula of clears
that resist yellowing. And since my access to decent pricing on Awlgrip products has vaporized (Composite One no longer distributes Awlgrip)
that makes Alexseal a clear front runner.

Mix ratio's are different....but that is expected….. 1:1:3/4 which is like 37.5% by volume refer to TDS
gun pressures are a bit higher between 60 & 80 psi at the nozzle with 25 lbs in the pot

So.. application:
From what I can gather....The same multi coat spray schedule is still used with a different spin on technique.
it has been said that the first coat would need to be a little wetter. (as opposed to Awlgrip's dry tack coat). and the skin over window is much shorter. Only a couple of minutes I've been told (so make sure you have enough paint mixed to coat or you'll see a line where you stopped). also you may witness flat spots from 320 grit sanding of your primer but don't go back over them as they will melt away once paint has flowed. This coat will use more paint (maybe as high as double) than Awlgrip's first coat

FLASH PERIOD...….< 1 HOUR

Second coat …...same as the first, A good wet coat you should expect this product to act like most thin viscosity fluids. It will run and sag at the drop of a hat at any substrate detail where paint can pool (spray rails, bulkheads etc) we have all been there.

FLASH PERIOD...…..< 1 HOUR

Third coat...Money shot LOL.. being mindful that we are building up a decent wet film thickness....this is where we get into trouble. Looks so good just a tad more.....OH! **** too much. Different than most systems where the majority of your paint is put on in this coat. With Alexseal you will use less

FlASH PERIOD...…….8-10 HOURS

Clears.....unchartered waters here I have no experience here with Awlgrip light colors I'd add some clear to my color and shoot a final coat.

But with Alexseal I guess you add some clear after outgassing has been completed on your color shots.
I've heard 2 coats then wet sand and 2 more...Unclear! (pun intended) I'm not going to get into this in detail due to lack of experience.
But will report back with real world knowledge once I have done hull #1.

Okay that's all I've got if anyone would like to correct me or add something PLEASE DO.....sharing is caring. We all benefit.

Thank You

TonyG

 

[Laurance]

I can't comment on a comparison between spray application of these two coatings but i can on hand application. Alexseal is pretty much idiot proof: p220 your primer and roll on a decent coat of the topcoat with 30% brushing solvent. p320 this and go again with another topcoat. Lastly and optionally P400 or scotchbrite and then a clearcoat. Tipping is not only not necessary but can actually interfere with its self levelling properties. If you lost your wet edge in the middle of panel, or too much dust landed in the wet film, it can be cut back and polished. By contrast Awlgrip is temperamental, no matter how fastidious your preparations, it invariably does not level out smoothly and you can't 'officially' polish it out if you did not get lucky with the painting.

Ok so Alwgrip is the hardest thing out there but when it comes to real world serious impacts or abrasion no paint film will resist damage, so better to have a paint job on you can easily touch up like Alexsel i reckon.

For perspective, i have rolled and tipped, International Perfection pro, (only available in Europe) Epifanes two part poly, Interlux two part poly, and Imron marine. My experience is Alexseal is hands down the easiest two part topcoat to get right, followed by Perfection Pro. I was impressed enough to have a 112 foot yacht sprayed dark blue with it. One season in the tropics later its doing fine and has been almost a pleasure to touch up.

 

[grady]

Thanks Laurance, It sounds like you have done your fair share of hull prep. Thank you for your contribution.

can you attach some pictures of your projects.....especially the biggen.....LOL

Thanks

TonyG.

 

[fallguy]

I can't comment on a comparison between spray application of these two coatings but i can on hand application. Alexseal is pretty much idiot proof: p220 your primer and roll on a decent coat of the topcoat with 30% brushing solvent. p320 this and go again with another topcoat. Lastly and optionally P400 or scotchbrite and then a clearcoat. Tipping is not only not necessary but can actually interfere with its self levelling properties. If you lost your wet edge in the middle of panel, or too much dust landed in the wet film, it can be cut back and polished. By contrast Awlgrip is temperamental, no matter how fastidious your preparations, it invariably does not level out smoothly and you can't 'officially' polish it out if you did not get lucky with the painting.

Ok so Alwgrip is the hardest thing out there but when it comes to real world serious impacts or abrasion no paint film will resist damage, so better to have a paint job on you can easily touch up like Alexsel i reckon.

For perspective, i have rolled and tipped, International Perfection pro, (only available in Europe) Epifanes two part poly, Interlux two part poly, and Imron marine. My experience is Alexseal is hands down the easiest two part topcoat to get right, followed by Perfection Pro. I was impressed enough to have a 112 foot yacht sprayed dark blue with it. One season in the tropics later its doing fine and has been almost a pleasure to touch up.

I had a heluva time getting Epifanes to lay down. It seemed thirsty for thinner at 10% (needed more), but when we tipped it too thin our multiple chines were a great place to unintentionally offload.

Awlgrip was neverdesigned for a roller. It has like a one second wet edge at max thinner.

I can't imagine 30% thinner rates not running. That'd be so thin; any darkness underneath would show, too.

No?

 

[Laurance]

Thanks Laurance, It sounds like you have done your fair share of hull prep. Thank you for your contribution.

can you attach some pictures of your projects.....especially the biggen.....LOL

Thanks

TonyG.

My wording may have been misleading, I did not spray the 112', it just my job to do the touch ups on this boat, usually after i have not parked it well. A painting contractor in Rhode Island resprayed it last time. The shooter in the spray team told me after i had complimented his work that he could have got a better finish with it but as he almost exclusively worked with Awlgrip, the Alexseal felt like a different animal.

no pics per se, but here is the yachts' website www.reeyacht.com

 

[Laurance]

I had a heluva time getting Epifanes to lay down. It seemed thirsty for thinner at 10% (needed more), but when we tipped it too thin our multiple chines were a great place to unintentionally offload.

Awlgrip was neverdesigned for a roller. It has like a one second wet edge at max thinner.

I can't imagine 30% thinner rates not running. That'd be so thin; any darkness underneath would show, too.

No?

Everybody I know in 'super yachting' responsible for maintaining their fabulously expensive paints jobs adds tons of solvent when doing touch-ups, especially Awlgrip, thin it right down and lay it on thinner. Lots of thin coats better than one or more thick coats, it is after all principally a spray product, even if you have added brushing reducer.

The Alexseal rep for Road Island told me up to 25% brushing reducer was perfectly acceptable, if its really hot weather, a little more than this even helps. If you are applying it thinly and carefully as you should be, it wont run.

 

[mastcolin]

Alexseal is used by many big builders in Europe with good results. It sprays different than awlgrip but a good painter will get good result. Thin it more than they say. You need 13s din 4 viscosity. That is about 50% thinner. ( then again, so is awlgrip). It rolls and brushes awful. Awlgrip win here. Primer 442 which is =545 is good. Don’t worry about it. Ask feadship if it is good enough.

 

[mastcolin]

Ps a lot of the us Alexseal guys are ex awlgrip. They are great help.