Alering the floats/amas of an early Tremolino

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by trip the light fandango, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,656
    Likes: 123, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Do you have a link for that? I wouldn't mind having a look too even though I probably won't go down that path on my boat.
     
  2. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    It's in the Tremolino Yahoo group, post number 8570. I attempted to read the lot years ago, problem solving, tuning and a comprehensive insight into all things Tremolino, very helpful members
     
    Corley likes this.
  3. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 2,073
    Likes: 39, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Here is the small Nicol, immersed at rest amas work great for cruising. Different center of buoyancy at about 2/3rds aft compared to the central pivot motion of a Newick and a main hull designed to lift to the surface. It would get you a bit more payload as the amas carry their own weight, flatter sailing etc..... more drag in light conditions but not bad, My Vagabond is a great ghoster in slop which you wouldn't expect.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    I've been enjoying learning a bit from following the interesting thread on these and the larger versions/cousins and really like them. They're a little more delicate as far as grounding/beaching than fibreglass [although they do have solid looking keels that protect the hull] and probably need more care/upkeep but they are just about everything I like in a sailing boat, ,near perfect...ha..and 25ft is the max I can fit on my mooring. The risk of pitchpoling seems very low[sailed within reason] with the main mass being aft of centre, such a clever design. They look like a something Erick Manners might approve of except that it is a bit of a hybrid, racer/cruiser and a bit short . They also look from above like they could have been made recently at least although there is more wing. This book I've been reading {safe multihull cruising] talks about the frustrations of how impossible it is to remove the commercial imperative from boat evaluation, that and the urge to overstate the positives of ones' own boat [ especially if one has altered it a bit...ha ]. Thank you for this useful bit of objective insight, immersed amas , centre of buoyancy, sailing characteristics,The lack of freeboard slows the Trem down a bit in slop. I once dropped a nylon washer from a fishing reel that sat on the water because of the surface tension, an original tremolino can sail at walking pace in those conditions, when everyone else is becalmed..amazing. regards .
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  5. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    The weight of a Hobie 18 is 181kgs,[H16,145kgs] the displacement of an early Tremolino is 431kgs, I'll be extending length of the Hobie 18 hulls by 600mm , the standard max free board is 700mm , I plan to increase it to closer to 1metre , with beams strong enough to take the additional stress. I think I'll need to keep the hobie 16 rocker, similar to early cruising trimarans, this should help keep the light helm the trem has. I expect to end up with a small tri that can manage more weather and chop, stay drier and higher than the original. I also expect a sense of stability/ comfort/safety that is reassuring . The new weight should be around 500kgs , I've already added about 30kgs increasing the freeboard on the central hull , I don't think there's any need to set up rudders on the amas/floats .
    I have found that polyester resin in the thickness that beach cats are made of is a material that can be cut and remodelled relatively easily, sand back past the gel coat and lay woven matt being careful to work out the air bubbles, then Q cell as a filler, it means that I can recycle the still healthy bits of the old 16 ft[and others] hulls as donor parts and create something quickly ,cheaply and efficiently with some degree of the finish ready made,the joins need fairing. . This approach to the amas means I end up with a void between the hobie 18 hulls and new skin of about 200mm, may be a bit more depending on how they naturally fit together.
     
    BlueBell likes this.
  6. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 358
    Likes: 24, Points: 18
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    Voids are not good.
    I'd look for a load solution on that one.

    Otherwise, sounds like a good plan.
    YeeeeeHaaaaaaa...
     
  7. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    Ha ..yeehaa is right, hmm any cavity that can't be accessed visually or reached is suspicious you're right, I would run a tube to the lowest point in the new bilge so it can be drained though. On the main hull I used polyurethane foam and some layers of epoxy after the polyester glass, glassing in epoxy was ok but a little harder to finish as it cured, let alone sand, very time consuming, a lot of epoxy Q cell[ micro balloons], that's why I'm thinking a void, I expect water to find its way in there.Polyester is easy to use but just not as waterproof as epoxy or quite as tough.
    If it looks like it isn't going to be able to support the load when beached or knocked, I'll be making little frame stations to brace {with holes for bilge flow. I think that the inherent strength of those curves will be pretty tough though, also I will run extra glass reinforcement down the spine,and maybe a replaceable timber strip or maybe delrin. I did want to avoid getting too bogged down in this project , keeping it quick and simple, it is already growing , ..extra weight is an anathema for a tri.. eek. Not sure what you mean by a load solution?
    The beauty of having not started is that I could just sell the H18 I picked up for a real profit by properly repairing its holes and then be able to afford some fresher hobie 16s ,. not much yee haa in that though... ha.. cheers and thanks for the reply.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  8. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 358
    Likes: 24, Points: 18
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    No, don't stop, carry-on.

    Load Solution: analyze the loads created and how they are transmitted, look for the week link, where the break will happen and why.
    Then, redesign and stiffen/strengthen that area effectively transferring that load on down the line, dissipating it as it fades.
    Really, I'm an engineer.
    PM me if this is too vague.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  9. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    Ahah got it, I sourced a pair of hobie 16 front beams that will be attached with aluminium{I don't want to make fibreglass ones, my sons a welder] brackets that are located just forward and aft of the front and rear existing beams they will locate where the flange on a Trem meets the vertical following the form there., The rear new beams may have to be straight ally tube unfortunately. There will be corresponding braces across inside the main hull . These are the lifting strap areas . To explain the connection to the amas I'd have to show photos, I had a crack at explaining the structure on the scow bow thread here. It wasn't particularly successful.. ha . So yes I'm on to chasing the weakest point, it is fascinating,I want it to look graceful,..birdlike.. thats the aim anyway..ha .so here's a couple of photos ,the new beams would meet at the 3way joiner, with ally plates that use the existing bolts, creating some triangle shapes .,.. regards
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  10. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    The cormorants think its nice, but not quite as much as the cat, the added bulbs on the H16 were about the dopiest thing I did, it slowed her down a bit I think.., left over glass and foam can be a dangerous thing and another good reason to make the change. I'll be cutting the posts and new boots plus part of the H16 deck and bolting and glassing them on to the H18 decks, using 8inch inspection covers for access to glass in the bases. I re enforced them with thicker tube as a sleeve on the last treatment. H18 rely on the strength of the deck for rigidity, which I'll be adding to,...yeehaa ..that is going to be a fair bit of scrubbing, more reason to make and get the covers on, I'll tackle it on a rainy day, sheesh, I'll set the fishing lines up again to make it hard to land.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  11. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    I saw some footage of Maserati on you tube , both her amas are in the water when she is at rest, it makes more sense than earlier Tri's with one ama always in the air.
    The only disadvantage I can think of is the moment of capsize is going to be accelerated a little in the last few degrees because the sail wont release the wind quite as readily at that crucial point as the flying ama wont be quite as high to depower it. I shouldn't have put up that shot of the added bulb on the hobie ama, it is embarrassing, but I'll make something better, I write , rather lamely, because it's testament to an enthusiastic ignorance, a mistake, . ha,, I press on.
    I'm beginning to think that making a carbon mast is a better and cheaper investment than an a better outboard that could go missing one night on the mooring.
    The weight of my mast submerges the transom if I try to lower it on the water. If it weighed a 3rd less I could manage it far more easily myself, the boat would be a little more stable also, and a bit safer, cheers
     
  12. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 2,687
    Likes: 64, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    The disadvantage of both amas in the water is more drag sailing in light air conditions.
    Most places have a significant percentage of time at light conditions
     

  13. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 86
    Likes: 12, Points: 8
    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    The most prominent wind here would be 12+ kn, on the edge of Bass straight being fed by the Southern ocean.
    I consider myself a fair weather sailor, when it is pretty classic conditions is the most memorable for me,
    but if I can't make the most of rough weather and enjoy it,
    I'm in the wrong game .
    Getting into little calm bays and sheltered points is what I most enjoy. It turns into a millpond about as often as it's 5to 10kn, not that often.
    So extra drag in a small percentage of time drops down the list of compromises made owning this particular type of craft for mine . But a quiet motor would help, I am a little taken with the Dolphin inboard 12hp weighing in at 50kgs/110pounds, it means creating some through hull holes that don't really grab me, but at one litre per hour and a turbine humm it is a bit tempting . A carbon mast is probably a better way to go, still there's more pressing matters, like the bloody cormorants, regards
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.