Alering the floats/amas of an early Tremolino

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by trip the light fandango, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    I suppose the lack of specific technical information and photos and the fact that I'm not after outright performance and trying to find a way of involving the spouse doesn't really interest wash on a sight like this. Something like the difference between the vintage drivers club and the vintage sports car club. Can anyone discuss what happens when the outside hulls of a trimaran are deliberately set deep enough in the water to create say 100mm of lift to the centre hull. In this case the outer hulls individually have just enough positive buoyancy to lift the centre hull out of the water under full load over 15knots the wind abeam. The centre hull has about 450mm below the waterline. and 350mm with outer hulls set this way. This is loaded with water ,anchor food supplies and petrol including motor ,ie fully laden. The new hulls and cross beams will add enough extra weight to be about 170mm below the water line at rest. What performance issues can I expect with this scenario or is the data too limited to extrapolate anything useful. Also is it worth setting a camber on the outer hulls so that the bottoms are set a few degrees out or away from the centre hull?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  2. trip the light fandango
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    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    Alering..?? Alluring? I meant Altering sorry about that,
     
  3. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I'd suggest you get the latest high volume ama design from Newick (Mrs.) and quit butchering a decent boat.
     
  4. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Have a look on the web for the Tremolino Fbomb. It uses modified Tornado hulls as floats and has done pretty well on the racing circuit in Moreton Bay. Jayson the owner is a nice bloke and I'm sure will fill in the details if he drops by. As far as I know she uses the original crossbeams but he rejigged the waterstays to better support the beams.

    If your on Facebook he admins a group for Tremolino trimaran owners: Tremolino trimaran group https://www.facebook.com/Newicktremolinogroup/
     
  5. trip the light fandango
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    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    Unfortunately I don't have the money or the time to make new amas and although it may be sacrilege I don't like the look of the last floats much. I'm not after pure performance either, more stability ,but the last of the Newick design floats would n't have as much wind resistance as .. never mind sorry to bother you. I shouldn't bite but I've recently been reading a book by the multi hull society , you know OPTIMUM B, about your vintage ,considering the original Trem used H16 hulls and was a racing cruising compromise I don't think I'm that far off the mark. I think the outriggers you mention are the 3rd or 4th incantation from Newick on the 40year old original, there have been many successful mods by others too I have read the 9000 odd posts on the trem site ,a few years ago and some of my mods have been quite successful some not so but reversible. At least you got to vent your spleen eh. yeah I'm fascinated with design and I experiment, I make stuff no one has, it is a design forum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  6. trip the light fandango
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    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    Thanks Corley, I have seen that boat but it was a while ago, I'll revisit it, I did post on the trem site as well so I may get some useful direction there as well. Just had a look,what a boat, an outright speed machine, thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  7. guzzis3
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    F bomb. I was wondering what those floats were. I owned that center hull once I believe, below is a photo from when I bought it.... 2005 or something ?

    It is possible I do not understand what you are suggesting above. If it is to immerse both floats nd partly support the center hull than I'd imagine it would sail like a 60's tri which carries all 3 in the water, Horstman, Piver etc. So it would probably be a bit slow, but it wouldn't walk at anchor, which is a plus. The motion in a crossing sea might be a bit more cat like.
     

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  8. trip the light fandango
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    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    That is what I'm suggesting, and yes you picked the reference too, an old book on successful .cruising multihulls, a bit slower but greater stability with very few negative side effects from what I can tell, still much quicker than most monohulls, with a more comfortable ride much shallower draft etc,. She will still lift the weather hull in any wind over 10 knots and lower the heel angle by a few degrees making reefing a little more important maybe. That would explain why the F bomb is so quick if it is made of marine ply, a fair bit lighter, I thought it was fibreglass thanks for the input.
     
  9. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    It will also tack slower, might have difficulty completing a tack.
    When flying the windward ama, it will be closer to the water (for a given wind speed) causing the ama to be smacked by waves.
     
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  10. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    When I had it the center hull could be just about lifted by 2 fit blokes so very light. It had side bits that greatly increase the accomodations, and give solid seats instead of the hammock things Mr Newick drew..if memory serves...

    Horstmans have been documented surviving hurricanes (cyclones) and an old Hartley I believe was the first tri to circumnavigate australia. By all accounts they tack more readily than most cats. I suppose there is always a downside. Worst case scenario you try it hate it and revert.

    High diahedral tris have issues also, things that have always put me off them.

    Realistically how much is this experiment going to cost you ? It's probably just not that big a deal. Maybe knock up some temporary floats (tortured ply, maybe low grade and a coat of paint) whack them on and see what happens. If you like it make them properly...Don't bother changing the beams, just knock up some deep floats for the experiment...

    Also I think your origional assumption is wrong. Yep there are those enamored of foils and flyers, then there are the historic mob with their often plywood 60's and 70's designes. There are the whacky experimenters and the conservatives. There is much worth reading here and most people are really polite and considerate. I've sometimes been shocked at how hostile some sailing forums are, but this in my experience is one of the good ones....

    Whatever you decide I hope you have fun with it. Keep us posted...
     
  11. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    I already have the H18 hulls so I can alter them a little without changing anything on the centre hull and crossbeams that I can't unbolt if it turns out worse than the original, I thoroughly enjoy messing about with boats and I'm fascinated with their design and the compromise required. My Trem is fibreglass and heavier than the marine ply versions, it is also very tough with great longevity, the seats are material and feel a little flimsy but they are very comfortable. I think I'll end up with a bit slower and heavier boat that is a little harder to tack that feels and looks bigger with extra stability, retaining most of the Trem good manners.I suppose a boat set up for cruising/camping will always be heavier. You're right about there being many types of enthusiast here, it has already been worthwhile posting with many knowledgeable members and hints. thanks for your insight.
     
  12. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    One of the traits of this little Tremolino is that it never feels jarring or pushed around, if the new hulls/floats brought that sort of behaviour I think I'd find some fresh H16 hulls and forget it. I doubt what you suggest will happen because of the equal and opposing hull on the lee side when underway , I agree that tacking maybe harder but she turns very easily when asked now.
     
  13. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    It kinda defeats the purpose of a trimaran.
    Load the centre hull and keep the amas high.
    Better sea-kindlyness, better performance, better handling, less stress on the frame, better everything.
    I think it a poor direction to go but what do I know.
    Do what you must.
    Good luck. Pictures please.
     
  14. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    I agree that the amas must not be loaded and the centre hull takes the weight, and that the beams need to take the extra load ,and are already the potentially weakest point.
    One way of dealing with high amas is to tether floats that take up the seesaw effect when at anchor. I have altered my centre hull which has exaggerated the seesaw a little, but I used the boat quite a lot before that, and it means whenever you move it is to be taken into account. The multi hull society ran from about 1937 to say 1970 and developed its concepts with cruising in mind from what I have read. These were/are very experienced people with proof of purpose and effects, they reckon 3 hulls in the water gives up a little performance but returns stability and seaworthiness like no other. It is a difficult book to read ,the author/s seem to be responding to having been perpetually sniggered at and poked with a stick by the yachting world at the time , it is hard to read. SAFE MULTIHULL CRUISING , by the multihull society. My Trem is about 4 ft too short to make the grade but many principles still apply. When I have built it I will post the photos, cheers
     
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  15. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Junior Member

    I found the answer to my query on the Trem forum 8570 with the specs to the Brisbane Trem, and comments from the owner. Although a different strategy to mine, he has now proven his approach and understanding of loads has worked which, although different, is relatively easy to interpret for my coast cruising needs. Corley, you were on the money[Brisbane Trem], and good luck with your big Kurt Hughes project and small trem repairs . It was 5years ago but I should have remembered what sowed the seed.
    The history on this forum is also full of treasures , thanks all, cheers
     
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