AIT Around In Ten

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Manie B, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    No problem WindRaf,
    if you need to know more, just ask and I'll see if I can provide what you ask.
     
  2. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    I would like to purchase a second hand set of sails for my 10 footer. Since I have no idea yet what kind of sail to use (gaff-bermudan-etc...) all options are still open.

    Does any of you guys have suggestions about a suitable sail rig for my little bathtub ? Still have to make the mast-spars and so on so there's still some room for adaption.

    Thanks !!
     
  3. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member

    The geometry of you boat is like this;
    the traditional solution is:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    :D:D that would call for a redesign of the mast position on my little boat.
    Very unlikely I can find a set of used sails of that configuration....me thinks.
    I was more thinking along the lines of a Mirror Dinghy or any production boat which offers the possibility to find a spare set of sails.
    Thanks anyhow WindRaf.
     
  5. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member


    if you dont want change the mast position is better that you think also to built a centreboard
     
  6. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    Hello WindRaf,

    I dont want to hyjack his thread but my little boat will use chine runners.....I know they are not very effective.
     
  7. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,051
    Likes: 211, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I think that, in choosing any rig, you should think about survivability first.

    Your little bathtub is bound to get rolled a few times.

    You want a rig that can stand up to that.

    An un-stayed rig doesn't seem up to the challenge, unless it's made of expertly crafted carbon fiber.

    If not, you need to plan on using stays and shrouds.

    The mid 19th to the mid 20th century probably provide your best rig choices.

    The mid 19th century offers a gaff sloop or cutter.

    The shorter mast, due to the gaff, offers pretty secure staying, for a wide boat, such as yours. The shorter mast can be of heavier construction than a taller one.

    The mid 20th century offers a masthead sloop or cutter.

    Such is stiffly stayed, but can be built sturdily, if shaving the last once off isn't the major goal.

    With the masthead rig, I'd go with a cutter.

    I'd set it up in such a way that the main and inner jib would be used for reaching and tacking, and the main, inner jib, and outer jib would be used for sailing down wind.

    The second combination would be to intentionally create a lee helm, so the boat would automatically stay on down wind course.
     
  8. RHP
    Joined: Nov 2005
    Posts: 835
    Likes: 85, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1183
    Location: Singapore

    RHP Senior Member

    2 similar poles, one acts as boom (with second as spare), both used for booming out for downwind sailing.
     
  9. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    Thanks for the reply's !!!

    The masthead rig seems a logic conclusion to replace carbon technology (which I dont master) with sturdy construction to gain strenght and a little added weight.
    It seems (I'm not an expert) that the cutter rig would require my mast to be placed a tad more aft than it currently is. I haven't made the mast but it's position is rather set.
    I'm not in favor of a bowsprit though.
    Going for a masthead rig seems to rule out the gaff sail on such a little boat so Bermudian it will be.
    Another thought: because it's not so obvious to easily get to the bow, would the staysail and jib be not a bit to much to make it a cutter ?
     
  10. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,051
    Likes: 211, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Interesting questions.

    The inner jib would be tacked to the stem head. The outer jib would be tacked to the end of a longish bowsprit. This jib would not hank to a stay there, but would be set flying, with a block on the end of the bowsprit, as well as a halyard. This way it can be pulled inboard for furling. Being intended primarily as a down wind sail, the tightness of its luff is not all that critical.

    This boat would be a cutter only in the fact that the mast would be more or less in the center of the rig, not necessarily in the center length of the hull.

    I don't believe sailing dead down wind is the best strategy, even if it is the shorter distance. I believe the boat will be more comfortable and better behaved on a down wind tack. The greater wind pressure, on one side, will dampen a considerable amount of rolling. The boat will then be far less inclined to jibe as well.
     
  11. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    I agree that sailing dead down wind might be the least comfortable choice, certainly for such a short boat.Some degree of heeling will create a stabilizing effect.

    There is indeed a difference between having the mast in the center of the hull and in the center of the rig to wether or not make it a cutter,didn't know that, thanks .

    It wouldn't be too difficult to make the bow sprit be able to fold inboard with a hinge system at the utter bow point I guess to "easily" furl the outer jib.

    The original question however was, which set of "standard" sails of a production boat could be used for my 10 footer. Going for a masthead rig might be the hurdlle to make this an impossible search.

    The input is highly appreciated !!
     
  12. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    I fiddled around with Autocad and with a mashead rig, the sail area is very limited. The best I could come up with was 4.77 m2 for the mansail and jib.
    Not very impressive numbers for a 4.50 M tall mast on such a short boat but perhaps 4.77 M2 is "enough" (whatever that means.....)
     
  13. RHP
    Joined: Nov 2005
    Posts: 835
    Likes: 85, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1183
    Location: Singapore

    RHP Senior Member

    A longer boom with the sail reefing by moving the foot of the sail to the mast? A cringle 1/3rd of the length of the boom brought forward to the gooseneck? Then you could further reef down by lowering the luffing in the normal manner? Just ideas....
     
  14. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    The backstay on a masthead rig limits the length of the boom and the shape of the mainsail.
    The boom is hardly 1.30 M and even with a 4.5 M "tall" mast the area of the mainsail is barely 2.37 M2.......
     

  15. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 330, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I'm afraid if one wants to find a way around the AIT 10' length rule then there are ways. For example, if someone decides to copy the FLIP idea, then in what position should length be measured . . ? ?

    Just for info (and for what it's worth ;)), for me AIT 10' is 10' or less disassembled hull length between perpendiculars, measured in the position as it is sailing.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. sdowney717
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,002
  2. rwatson
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,426
  3. Westfield 11
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,053
  4. sdowney717
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,509
  5. yacht07
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    2,093
  6. watchkeeper
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    2,003
  7. Tiny Turnip
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,034
  8. brian eiland
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,016
  9. rwatson
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,472
  10. digger73
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,227
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.