Affordable seaworthy cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by goodwilltoall, Jul 31, 2010.

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  1. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Perhaps the biggest hurdle to using the Old Testament in the bible as a naval architectural guide is in the displacement calculations. According to Jewish scripture, all species were loaded on the ark. There isn't enough volume to create the buoyancy necessary to carry the claimed load. Further, there isn't enough volume to fit the animals. I understand if someone claims it was a miracle. However, in that case it is irrelevant to point out the limits of technology.
     
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  2. Voxsolus
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    Voxsolus Junior Member


    Hi Gonzo... you bring up valid points... According to Scripture not all animals on earth were housed in the Ark but " pairs of every kind"( all the then existing species)... 4300 years approx. since the deluge, has allowed morphing, mutation and interbreeding to occur to a scale that can explain all present differing animal " kinds", and the likelihood of such a scenario, including our present population levels from just 8 survivors, has been successfully calculated without the need of further miraculous intervention... Not all large animals needed to have been represented in adulthood; just " pairs of every kind"; 2 pairs of some and 7 pairs of other " kinds".... Keeping these factors in mind, and the recently rediscovered measurements of tongue and mortise timber ( lumber) sections and beams that compose the Ark found at @ 13,000 feel above sea level, as well as preserved utensils, tethering ropes and pegs and even preserved straw and what appears to be a granary previously filled with " chick peas", does not put the possibility of comfortable displacement beyond probability... The vessel as discovered anew on Mount Ararat in 2010 is of 3 levels, as per the Genesis account. Stairs were filmed as being constructed from log sections with angular notches for treads. Hull thickness is also recorded but I would have to get back on the approx. measurements. Pitch caulking has even been preserved ( noticeably with high levels of gaseous exhumations in some closed-off compartments), with the majority of the structure submerged in ice and snow within the snowline even during summer months.... At just over 17.5 inches per standard cubit, the structure is about 5250 inches long x 525 inches high x 875 inches wide ( beam)... ( ie: @73 ft beam, @44 ft height, @440 ft length)... All this is filmed and recorded and available in the public domain... The density of CYPRESS lumber is relatively low but carries high strength and resilience... It is not a hardwood... No doubt the heavier animals were at bottom level acting as ballast... Regards, Voxsolus
     
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  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Morphing, mutation and interbreeding is not part of the documentation in the Old Testament. That is a modern apology to try to circumvent facts. To start with, the expedition's findings are mostly fabrications. All they got are some pieces of wood, the rest is fantasy. Calculations have not been successful or in any way scientific, but simply claims accepted on faith. Animals and supplies will not fit in that volume. Further, most plants would also have had to be preserved. Otherwise, they would die under salt water. However, the one explanation that begs a miracle, is where did the water retreat to. In short, this post has too many claims that can't exist without some god's intervention. As a conclusion, it can't be used for naval architecture or any other technical endeavor. It does make for good tale.
     
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  4. Voxsolus
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    Voxsolus Junior Member

    Hi Gonzo..... It appears you may have confused expeditions, since the one I am referring to is certainly not fabrications of Faith-based fantasies, but fully filmed, documented and proven... I have the full film version of several hours covering the entire expedition which I acquired from Hong Kong... I am including their very truncated 4 minute intro youtube video herewith: .... There are other longer excerpts as well in other youtube postings of this expedition but as you will find if you view the entire 4 minutes it has nothing unscientific or just " some pieces of wood" as evidence etc etc.... Thoroughly true and unconcocted with good film evidence... As for where the water receded to? Genesis is clear that " the fountains of the deep" ( subterranean cavern recepticles which are now subterranean aquifiers, rivers and seas) exist and would have been sufficient to receive the excess water comfortably.... You are correct that the Old Testament does not use the words morphing, mutating or interbreeding, yet nor does it deny that the natural order to " go forth and multiply" incorporates all three concepts.... I understand that this may prove to be an unpalatable truth, but the 2010 expedition was succeeded by two or three more even more revealing... The facts of all these are, once again, indisputable and in the public domain and need no apology or defense as proof...
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It is simple to disprove with Google Earth. Zoom in at Mount Ararat and use the ruler to create a 440' line. There is no feature that resembles a shipwreck of that scale. In short, it is not more proven than the factoids of the Flat Earthers. As for the water receding, miracles and other magic can be used to explain how the most fantastic things could've happened. It is not science and, most definitely, not a source to base technology on. Your beliefs may bring you comfort. When you try to convince engineers, shipwrights and naval architects about volumes and displacements with the Bible, you are totally out of luck.
     
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  6. Voxsolus
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    Voxsolus Junior Member

    Gonzo you obviously did not care to watch the video... You also forget the vessel is under permanent snow and ice with only two or three excavated side entrance points- obviously not visible from the air but entirely visible from a close side approach which has been recorded and filmed more than once by a number of parties since 2010... Please view entire video before passing judgement prematurely... You may not like the fact nor the science behind it due to personal prejudices, but try to put them aside and at least give credit where it is due... Truth and evidence should not hurt that much... Noone is asking you to believe in a flat earth, rest assured... Sometimes facts and truth can be stranger than fiction ( that has been said before).... We are viewing clear evidence of the first constructed mega barge- the Ark of Noah... We have textual evidence of its dimensions and now proof of its architecture and construction... This is the essence of the matter and not one's mere prejudices or foibles...
     
  7. Voxsolus
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    Voxsolus Junior Member

    The following is Philip Williams' excursion with still images inside the same Ark of Noah on Mt Ararat in 2014- four years after the Hong Kong find...:

    Philip Williams' second deck excursion discovery part 1:

    And a slightly longer 10 minute rendition of the first 2010 discovery expedition:
     
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  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I've watched the video. It is not convincing at all, unless it reinforces your religious beliefs. There is no continuity from exterior location shots to the interior. I see pieces of wood that are supposed to be there for an indeterminate amount of time. If it run aground on the steep slope of the mountain, most animals and crew would've been crushed against each other. It is a fantastic tale typical of religious allegories. What it is not, is a source of technical information for naval architecture.
     
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  9. Voxsolus
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    Voxsolus Junior Member

    Gonzo the lack of continuity and lots of ice with broken beams etc is due to the 1840 earthquake which destroyed the monastery below on the mountain which housed numerous relics and damaged the Ark.. But the earthquake also gave access to the vessel side during some summers. All expeditions occured in summer months only... Animals and crew were not crushed because the whole internal is honeycombed with smaller compartments and cubicles... Mind you the photos and videos are taken at @13,000 feet where habitation has never existed... We need not get spiteful re " religious beliefs"... We are just gathering the evidence and seeing how the text aligns with the facts... Measurements/ Dimensions, at least approximate, should be ascertainable and an overall displacement estimate ( if the volume of timber can be gauged) made with a little effort and maybe some guesswork...
     
  10. Voxsolus
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    Voxsolus Junior Member

  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Seems like the forum is getting some religious zealots that want to use scripture as engineering data. They are always claiming "studies" and "research" without citing any of them. This post is typical of that. Making wild claims like "there were 35,000 species at the time on planet Earth". However, they deny evolution of species in the same breath. In short, no better science than Flat Earthers or any of the many Conspiracy Theorists.
     
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  12. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    It’s all Disney level info-drivel for the non discerning audience.

    Every ark discovery through history has been an incomplete fraud. None of them ever do a proper job of the hoax because they are not educated enough to see where they missed the bleeding obvious. And they would never hire science advisers !

    For the 2010 Chinese hoax. The timber was taken up the mountain to construct the Chinese expeditions film sets. It was set up in a couple of crevasses on the glacier. Some of it came from an old shed and some was new, it was charred with a blow torch.
    The timber hasn’t been taken away so of course its still there for others to find till it gets engulfed by the glacier. You can do the due diligence yourself.

    The rest was a work of pure fantasy and have been shown to be so. That's the fact. It's utterly amazing to me that anyone sensible can fall for such fiction.

    Fundamentally this is an engineering issue not one on belief. The Ark isn’t on any mountain and will never be found because it’s simply not possible to build a wooden hull girder for a ship of the size of the Biblical Ark without exceeding the limits of the materials extreme fibre stress. It would always break up at sea in the first blow.

    The challenge to any proponent of the Ark it is to organise a proper analysis of a wooden ship the size of the supposed Ark then publish the study that confirms it is possible.

    The ark can only ever float at the box office.
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Wooden ships of that size were built with hard woods like white oak and hard pine. Even then, they had structural problems that eventually drove the builders to use metal bracing. A point about the flood. We know that water covered worlds will have very violent weather and waves will grow to humongous size, since they keep on going around the world getting bigger. Realistically, any vessel would have to survive category 5 hurricanes or worse.
     
  14. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    The larger ships were all called composite construction and were attempts to make larger ships in the transition period, steel truss girders took the longitudinal beam loads, there were steel floors , knees etc, diagonal strapping of the hulls to stiffen for wracking and they were still failures.

    The longest trad wooden vessel possible without significant use of structural metal is closer to 250 ft LWL.
     

  15. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Did some research and seen others w videos of the Ark on Mt Ararat and found it still needs more evidences to become absolutely convincing however Gonzo chimes in on evolution and flat Earth so I will as well.

    My views on evolution are known as I've responded to that previously- real science affirms creation.

    Re: flat Earth. Have heard of it over the years but dismissed it until about 2 years ago when I started to research and can say convincingly the Earth is flat - the globe is dead. NASA is the biggest fraudster around

    I will only say that if I was to use google again to do the research that my conclusions would have beene to remain a globe earther as google has begun to censor and ban any mention of "flat earth" and now only puts up supposed "debunkers". So I thank God at that time I was able to be enlightened to the true shape of our Earth.

    For others that would desire to pursue finding out the true nature of where you really live the popular search engines and social media should be avoided as there is a direct attempt by the them - acting as gatekeepers to hide this truth. Use other search engines as they are more like Google used to be and still practice the motto "Dont be evil"
     
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