Affordable seaworthy cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by goodwilltoall, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Greetings,

    Post 107 & 108: The Turkish government has put that area where the supposed ark is located off limits to everyone but military. I did review the attached document but there are definitely more questions that arise than are answered.
    . The structure out there is in accordance with the dimensions of the
    original ark (300 cubits long x 50 cubits wide and does seem to be the right hull height in proportion.
    . All other things like an ordered structural form for timbers and metal brackets are discounted, but it is quite unique that it is found in a pattern that would follow a boat framework.
    . Further the Turkish goverment at first did claim it was the ark, and then all of the sudden puts the entire area off limits, the Turkish government correctly calls itself secular and athiestic and eventhough it has elections, the military can overule elected officials and just like has been done at least 10 times since the 1920's the military comes in and installs thier puppet when it finds the prime minister at odds with thier goals. So there is reason to be suspicious of the Turkish government because they have reasons to hide the truth of a world wide flood to bolster thier athiestic evolutionary idealogy.

    Peace.
     
  2. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Post 106: The hull area is close to 1050sf with it being 1.5" thick this would put weight at 4.5lbs. per sf. being pine multiplied gives 4725lbs hull. With bulkeads round off to 5,000lbs.

    35% Ballast would be 5,000lbs. and other gear,sails, engine and other attachments should come in at about 3500lbs. Payload would be 1,000lbs this is of course light ship.
     
  3. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

    Take the 4725 and multiply it by 1.35 to get the hull plus framing for a weight of roughly 6,400. Now add in the railings, deck hardware and windows and you are probably pushing closer to 8,000 lbs. Now put the ballast in and the payload and you will find yourself closer to 18,500 lbs. That is near the proper weight for the waterplane area.
     
  4. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    If you are so convinced that was the ark, then why does your planned ark look NOTHING like that supposed ark?
     
  5. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Greetings,

    Post111: Pierre, if jubilee is built with method #2 (coldmolding), 5000lbs should be very close, and if using method #1 a figure of 6,000lbs should be enough. Your final figure of 8,000lbs with all other attachments is very close. With 5,000lbs for ballast and 1,500lbs payload, light ship is 14,500lbs displacement.

    One reason for the rocker high above the waterline is that a sharpie type hull needs to ride on its bottom, but this should also help in regards to additional displacement. At times a long passage or extended stay would require additional payload and a possible 18,000lbs displacement can not be ruled out.

    Post112: Dennis, the supposed ark in the mountains of Ararat does look like a 6,000 year old boat would look like weather beaten up in those mountains.

    Further question: If satisfactory sails are found with eyelets instead of tracks, would it be possible to just lace them with line instead of using mast tracking?
     
  6. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

    goodwilltoall you don't seem to understand that, as drawn, the boat needs to weight around 18k lbs or you will definitely not make it in Lake Erie. :!:
     
  7. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

    It can work , but will need a drop keel with ballast , an at least 900 sq ft of sail.
     
  8. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

    I don't care where you put the ballast if its not heavy enough for the waterplane area its likely to be up chuck city in anything but a light chop. He wants to actually take this thing on Lake Erie. ;)
     
  9. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Should be no probs.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Yes, if you use mast hoops.
     
  11. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Greetings,

    Pierre, That makes sense in post 116 where you explain an uncomfortable motion in relation to light displacement. That is one further reason to keep the long length and narrow beam to assist in the comfort factor. The 6-1 ratio needs to be kept, if even a narrow beam ratio of say 4-1 in a shallow draft and light weight boat is designed the pounding would be even more pronounced and definitely not acceptable. Not sure if any other place has chop as bad as Lake Erie so hope those conditions are limited there.

    Since there are so few boats designed this long, was wondering if the benefits of long length are really being considered. In past times low powered boats seemed to follow that rule much more than is done today. Wider boat can carry more sail but a narrower hull is more efficient, also when the weather turns rough the narrower boat is more able to continue on, parting the waves more easily.

    If displacement has to be at least 18,000lbs. it will be done, but as you know everything else has to be beefier. Frank is right that with that displacement sail area of 900sf is needed which make a big difference compared to 14,500lbs and 700sf sail area.

    Frank, drop keels and box keels where considered. They would be great and it could be done to get a long lever arm to help in stability, but other things where weighed more important. Ocean journeys would be about 5%, the other 95% would the overlooked areas most sailboats are not able to enter. Rivers, canals, marshes, estuaries, coral reefs, beaches, tidal flats, etc. This is the reason for the emphasis on shallow draft and retractable attachments. Have not found another monohull sailboat able in those areas with the accomodations drawn and an ocean journier. The compromise is made to have shallow draft capability and slower boat rather than deep keel and more speed.

    Some of those areas would require an engine, a diesel paddlewheel still seems appropriate. Duckworks just had an article about a small type paddlewheel installation that performed satisfactorily and the original steam powered ships were all paddlewheeled. The most difficult part would be to make an adjustable paddlewheel. Set a kubota diesel on a steel plate plate bolted into concrete ballast with belt or chain connecting paddlewheel.
     
  12. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Dennis, where was that picture taken.

    Sam, are mast hoops required or can just line be used.
     
  13. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

    Goodwilltoall you are flat out making a lot of assumptions based on hearsay. It's not all that hard to design around everything that you have said above and make it irrelavent. At the same time adhering to your assumptions above as gospel is likely to get the livin snot beat out of you. It's not about porportions but how the shape and weight of the boat are affected and interacted with natural waves. Waves have a rolling action and do not like shallow slab sided boats with sharp chines.

    You are basically trying to make a 50' Home Depot war canoe with a stick and a sail. Next you say.

    Ahh an Ocean crosser? Have you bothered to get any of those suggested books yet?

    Ahhhhh Whhhhaaaat? ON A WAR CANOE! Well at least I don't think you will find another like er, at least not floating.
     
  14. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

    This is a Ray Hunt 510 , 38' x 6'-6 ', draft of 5'6" slab sided flat bottom
    I dont know what the rest of the specs. are .

    You should talk to a naval architect .


    [​IMG]
     

  15. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Frank,

    Thats a very interesting boat. Do you have more info on it? Ray Hunt designed many 6-1 boats with flat bottoms and slab sides. The boats are known for being fast and good handling. For thier time, it was unusual to have the deep draft fin keels he used. Still need to figure out how jubilee can sail without deep draft and off course smaller sails are required, so less speed.
     
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