Advice on Raft/barge/ferry from lumberyard material for occasional 6 mile trip

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Randall Brower, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Randall Brower
    Joined: Apr 2020
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    Location: Tanana AK

    Randall Brower Junior Member

    Yes, The Alaska River Highway YouTube video is 100% accurate. Ten minutes in they are at my village. And yes, it looks just like that.
     
  2. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    best post to date on the thread; pay attention OP
     
  3. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    If it were me, I'd pay for a steel shell to be built. The bottom all steel.

    You can deck it with plywood over some steel trussing.

    then I'd build a rail ramp in my yard to pull it up on the bank using a winch

    the deck work you could do at home on the ramp or the thing could be all done by a builder

    then it is always under your control and noone will be tempted to go hock your decking and you can slide it in and out .. only trick will be getting it landed in line with the rails

    this shuttle barge looks interesting

    maybe he'd sell you a bigger version plan
    Work Floats Shuttle Barges http://www.madisonboatandbarge.com/id25.html
     
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  4. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    The way I see it, RB has stated and held firm on a SOR of $5,000 and including low paid labor cost. Those two things would appear to trump all other SOR considerations? This is a situation where a ghetto log barge or a free and damaged commercial barge that can be repaired for under $5K, are about the only choices? That may be why he doesn't feel it necessary to state a complete SOR... All Things Considered, I think the log barges are about the most clever solution to a niche problem- that I have ever seen.
     
  5. Tiny Turnip
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    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    The fuel for pushing a barge upstream seems to be an issue now.
     
  6. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    You don't get to determine an artificially low price in an SOR. If I want a 100 foot bluewater yacht; I don't get to put the cost of 250k in the SOR.

    The SOR has changed.

    If the budget is 5k; you might be able to almost squeak it in in a sheathed plywood barge made from 3/4" roseburg ply, but you also can't leave that barge unattended and it ain't gonna perform super well on rocky bottoms...but the lifetime is short or maintenance high.

    I would still probably spend some more money for a steel bottom barge.
     
  7. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Log barges are one time use going Downstream, so no fuel issues if used like that. In post 107 Randall States that he will be spending a few hundred hours looking to build a Timber frame like above (log boat), no mention of his going Upstream on that final post. But he did say something about winging it in an earlier post, so there is a bit of confusion.

    There might be some way to get the log Barge Upstream, while reducing fuel costs. Kayakers ride counter currents and Eddies when paddling against fast currents Upstream, but I don't know if it would work with motorized barges on that particular River. Another consideration might be using his Jon Boat to transport smaller bolt together barge sections in pieces, assuming there is is plenty of power to do that, as the distance is not all that far. Some Out of the box ideas, that may not work at all :- )
     
  8. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Randall has stated that there is no issue with stuff, boats, vehicles getting stolen. Leaving a vehicle at the Fairbanks roadhead for the summer season, to shuttle back and forth and bring goods to the river, as Hoyt suggested (Hi Hoyt!) would seem to be a sensible plan, and then take an empty jon boat or two up from Tanana, maybe pack/tow an inflatable whitewater raft to fetch the goods for the fuel-light float back down. However Randall points out he wants to avoid the work in unloading the vehicle and loading the vessel twice, compared to just driving onto a raft or barge. I get that.

    Anyone got a design for a demountable raft/barge you can pack in a jon boat, assemble with little work, and that can carry a Chevvy Suburban???
     
  9. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Not demountable, but you gave me an idea.

    basically the place I linked to calls them a work float. The idea to lengthen it a bit and use the jon boat nested is interesting, but I'd still rail it home; especially if made from ply and epoxy; the beauty of not needing power for something used now and then is what I like

    There must be something like that where the float doesn't even meed power and all you need to do is combine the two well

    googled a bit and got zero
     
  10. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

  11. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Hmm, how about something like a 40ft x 8ft canoe shaped barge with detachable or folding outriggers? A trimarabarge? 1ft high it should have something like a max displacement of 7t.
    That should be easier and more fun to build and should have drastically less fuel costs. Also weights less. And could fit on a trailer. And the 3 individual hulls could make useful boats on their own.

    It should need less fuel costs to pull a 40ft long canoe behind another boat than putting the same weight inside a jon boat.

    And it fits the whole Canada / Alaska theme :)
     
  12. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Similar to what I was musing on, Dejay. Folding catamaran, super skinny hulls. Hulls stack on top of each other for empty, upstream work. In practice, 'folding' might be sliding, assembling, levering, winching etc. 2x 12metre x .5metre x 1metre deep hulls in 2mm steel would displace around 12 metric tonnes, weigh in the ball park of 2 tonnes all in.
    Judging by the videos, there's not a lot of regard for freeboard on the Yukon though.

    Notional doodle:

    fold boat.jpg
     
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  13. Barry
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    Barry Senior Member

    The problem with pushing is that this is a river that we are thinking about. The power that he is talking about does not seem excessive and control will be an issue pushing.
    To save fuel, he should be skirting the slicks, ie the line close to the upstream and downstream moving water, ie by the eddys to take advantage of the slow moving water here.

    So say he is heading up stream, just making headway and the front of the boat hits an eddy, the front will head to shore, the current working against 40 odd feet of the side of the hull. In order to get the motor thrust behind the bow to
    enable the bow to get back into the current, he would have to push the back of the boat perhaps 50 or 60 feet to get the current to catch the outside of hull to get direction and control

    Different than if you are doing 25 knots, in a planing boat and small adjustments are only needed to point the bow where you want it to go.
    With limited power, he would be better to tow the barge or be limited to the middle of the river in faster current which means a bigger fuel bill

    Pulling it, if the front of the bow gets caught in an eddy, you merely steer the towing vessel back into the main stream.


    The catamaran concept has come up quite a bit. But these come with increased draft which on a river can be an issue. The OP needs to get his deck close to shore to unload anything on wheels and due to the weight, long inexpensive
    ramp solutions may not be an easy option, (" come with increased draft if the outside measurements of the barge is the same as compared to a flat bottom barge")
     
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  14. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Squidly-Diddly https://www.boatdesign.net/members/squidly-diddly.22518/
     

  15. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Yeah maximum draft, maximum payload and speed of the river would need to be defined.

    I was hoping that a suitable deep path / landing would be available. And sandbanks need to be avoided even with a barge. So you have to navigate carefully anyways. And you'd need some mechanism to push off easily anyways with some lever.
     
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