Adding a Carolina Flare to Inboard Ski Boat - (Fishing conversion)

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by cdre, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. cdre
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    cdre Junior Member

    I've been working over a concept for a tarpon fishing boat - The idea is to convert a 19-20' inboard ski boat into an inshore/river tarpon fishing boat. Original thread here.

    I'm considering the idea of adding a Carolina Flare to the boat to address a couple of items: it would add some freeboard up front, helping to keep spray down and improve safety in choppy water, give a little more deck space up front, and add some additional front end floatation should the boat be caught in really sloppy conditions (safety). Adding a flare considerably increases the number of potential models of boats I can use to base the project off of as I could use some of the earlier ('80s) ski boats and not be concerned with the relatively low freeboard.

    My main concern, is construction. I'm thinking I can get away with removing front 2/3's of the deck and follow a cold-mold type process with a frame to extend the hullsides. I'd then look to use a composite material to complete the deck and keep weight down.

    Another concern is balance. I'd probably be adding close to a foot of length and some breadth to the front of the boat, shifting the center of balance forward in a boat with the engine already mounted in the center. Thinking I could incorporate a cooler under a rear leaning post and maybe a livewell in the stern to rebalance. Battery relocation to the stern would help as well. I'd keep the fuel tank where it is, nested against the transom.

    Here are some pics of potential ski boats to start with, and another design that is similar to what I would be trying to achieve with the flare.

    I'd really like some feedback/ideas on construction methods and weight concerns.

    Thanks!

    '80s Mastercraft 190
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    2000 Mastercraft 205
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    CB 19 Bluewater Center Console

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  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Sounds like trying to convert a refrigerator into a washing machine, way too difficult and without a huge amount of work the end result will look like a dog's breakfast, but that is just my opinion !
     
  3. cdre
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    cdre Junior Member

    Thats why I like forums... unfiltered frank feedback. Tell me how you really feel... lol.

    Thanks for weighing in. If you can elaborate on the "huge amount of work" that would be helpful.

    I've replaced floors before, but thats the extent of my fiberglassing experience. I'm looking to build/use the boat in Belize (my "Iraq" location is just temporary), so I'd likely have a local shop do most of the fiberglass work.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The problem is you're not seeing what's really going on with the lines of the two hull styles you are working with. The Carolina flare bow style will work on some runabout hulls, but not many and you'll have to match up the topside flare to one that's "compatible" with a Carolina treatment. By this I mean the Carolina bow has taller, more upright topside sectional shapes then the typical runabout topsides. This will present a big problem when you chop down the runabout bow and attempt to build a Carolina bow, as the flare will not look like it's flaring much.

    Ultimately, I think you need to look at some sectional drawings of both modern runabout and the Carolina bow you enjoy. Once you start "manipulating" the sections up forward, you'll quickly see the problem with certain hull shapes.

    The left most hull below is a runabout, the right most a hard chine Carolina style and the middle has the runabout bow cut down and flare added. Because of the flare that exists in the runabout's topsides, compared to the Carolina, you'll have difficulty pulling it off.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    additional weight?
     
  6. cdre
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    cdre Junior Member

    I think I follow you... the Carolina hullsides are more straight up and down, staying in tight before pushing out abruptly for the flare. And the leading edge of the keel when viewed from the beam stays in tighter before pushing out while the runabouts gradually come forward to the bow and the hullsides have more of a soft curve to meet the deck.

    I'm considering an older model Mastercraft 190 (post '83 for all fiberglass stringers). These hulls have a less curvy hullside up front than the later models. Would this straighter hullside would lend itself better to being extended up before flaring out. (Pic Below)

    Also, see the Chaos 21 below. The hullsides up front seem to be similar to the older Mastercraft. My thought would be to just raise that flare up another 6-8 inches (roughly guessing) and taper it back to the rear gunnel height abaft the beam like you would see on a larger boat.

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  7. cdre
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    cdre Junior Member

    Any thoughts construction-wise with regards to extending hullsides? Recommended methods to form/shape hullsides and to tie in with pre-existing glass?

    Thanks
     
  8. cbboatworks2
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    cbboatworks2 Junior Member

    I agree with the naysayers. More work than it could ever be worth and probably more cost than you realize.

    Of course I am biased, just buy a jig and mold a new boat that is well designed and proven. It will be less work and cost and turn out better - most likely - than your current line of thinking.

    Full disclosure - I am a member of the CB Boatworks Design Group. That is our boat that you used as an example of a Carolina Boat. Flattering. Thanks.

    Marc
    www.cb-boatworks.com
     
  9. cdre
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    cdre Junior Member

    Marc, thanks for your feedback. They are some really great looking boats.

    I'm considering modification of a pre-existing hull simply because the hull, trailer, and running gear can typically be purchased for less than 5k having been run in fresh water only and with an engine that costs very little to rebuild/service. I could buy a ski boat for the running gear/trailer and build a new hull to put it in, but I'm just thinking of containing costs.

    Studying the profiles, I understand where everyone is coming from in terms of the profiles being too different to accomodate the flare. That said, I could extend the freeboard up front by 8-10 inches and just gradually bring it back down toward the rear, achieving most of the safety benefits.

    Any thoughts on how this could best be done? I'm less worried about stylish appearance than I am with building a safe functional fishing boat.
     
  10. cbboatworks2
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    cbboatworks2 Junior Member

    I really do like the idea of buying an old ski boat for everything but the hull. That is pretty dang good thinking. You can strip her and put the stuff to "better use". I will respond to your email on the cost side to cold-mold a 22 hull. Stay safe and thanks for your service.
     
  11. cdre
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    cdre Junior Member

    Another option I just thought of is to pull the cap, extend the hullsides a bit for more freeboard and do a simple rolled gunnel design, a la Trophy 183. Simple and functional... Could tide me over till I build my CB 22 :)

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  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Carolina boats have about 14 degrees of vee in the stern. That gives them a fair amount of initial stability. It will cost you more to modify a hull than to build a new one. Also, you will end up with some aberration that will have little market value and probably won't run well. The reason Carolina boats have graceful lines with so much flare is the exagerated tumblehome aft. I have lofted and built dozens of them (all custom) and have a lot of experience with the shape. It will not blend in with a ski boat hull.
     
  13. cdre
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    cdre Junior Member

    I'm convinced! A carolina hull will not work! Thanks everyone for helping me to see the difference between the entry on these two very different styles of boats...

    That said, I continue to think about the possibility of extending the hull for more freeboard, and rolling the gunnells for a low-dollar conversion that will generally be a bit safer. I'm thinking something along the lines of a Key Largo 206 (below). Any thoughts on how this would best be accomplished or should I shift activities to the fiberglass forum?

    My initial thoughts are - remove cap, trim/feather hullsides, build forms to extend hullside and use something like 2" pvc to shape gunnels, reinforce existing hullsides.

    Thanks!

    Key Largo 206:
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    80's Mastercraft 190
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  14. cbboatworks2
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    cbboatworks2 Junior Member

    I did something similar - a long time ago - on an old Sea-Ray that was damaged in a road accident. I would love to see you build a CB 22 but, if that isn't to be in the near future, I wish you well in your endeavors.

    Marc
    ===============
    www.cb-boatworks.com
     

  15. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    I agree the conversion concept may not work, but you might look at building a new fiberglass hull of the shape you want and moving the guts of an old boat into it. As has been said so many times, the big costs of a boat are not in the hull, and it would also give you the option of getting boats with destroyed hulls but decent parts.

    Are you thinking of this as a production design?

    CB, have you built any of those yet?
     
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