Addicted To My Motorcycle, it has to go!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Wavewacker, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    and here's a thread about building a landing craft
     
  2. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

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  3. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    and just a note, bikes and saltwater don't mix well. I live at the beach, ride sand all the time and trust me, you don't want to be riding at all in saltwater, not even a bit! and if that bike sat in a nice sealed "room" on board all the better. You'll also want to "prep" the bike against rust before and during the voyage. I think we're on to something ....... ok, time for that second tequila shot! and hummmmm ..... maybe I should re think my great loop plans as I got a better boat design starting to happen, though I want more of a sailing vessel, cat inspired but now think something is forming out of the swirling gasses and taking shape. ...... shot time ....... and I'm thinking more like a DRZ400 electric start with the kick start lever added on and decent knobs on the tires, so good offroad and decent on road performance.

    .... and ok, so you're asking, a sail too? won't that get in the way? Not if it's a biplane rigged cat!
     
  4. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    cool landing crafts, wonder what prices are.

    and is this doing that "drop the tailgate for less drag" like pickup owners will do?


    [​IMG]
     
  5. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

  6. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Wow! That is a nice layout Richard, I'm guessing the bike goes across the stern as I didn't see any hull access large enough, which is really what I always thought anyway.

    You said "modular" which made me get an idea as well. I'm a business minded type and thought your approach there would be great for a more adaptable boat. If the hulls were designed with bulkheads and framing that was made to adopt different decks, cabins, chain plates, etc. someone could have more than one boat with the same hulls. If they could do a transformer thing in a few hours or even a day, they might go sailing on an open deck cat or slide the cabin deck on like a pickup camper and go motoring for a weekend...just a thought.

    My bike is a Honda Transalp 650. I'll discuss that in another post.

    As far as me building the cabin; that's a cool one on the Skoota 28 you have there, those windows would be a problem for me, but that's a cool top. I would probably consider a cabin similar to your 24 with straight pieces and I can add a little crown on a top. I would probably go for the smallest windows that would be sufficient, I don't think I want a greenhouse (not that yours is). I'd use 2x2s I think for framing walls and roof and use insulation board and sandwich that between probably 1/4 inch ply. I would also try to use some PVC conduit (electrical grade) for cabing wiring, so I could always fish wire through (even have some dead runs of conduit for later upgrades). I'd look for a flexible means to connect my power from a gen set in the hull to my cabin, not just a plug in.

    Would like a protected helm and enclosure for the cold could be canvas/hypolon/sunbrella.

    Don't mind a propane camp stove. I have an inefficient apartment (college dorum) fridge 120V, rather large for a boat, but I have it. I'd probably use a small SS bar sink from Lowes and get a manual pump. I'd try to figure out how to get hot water at the tap so I'd only have a cold water tank. A small pump pressure tank is fine for the shower and there are several pot options, but I think I'd head off troubles by not having a black water holding tank.
    Hoping for a standard mattress, could use a good inflatable bed.

    Fuel tanks should give me 100 gal (US) so I would not worry, I can't go without a solid 500 mile range with any power requirement.

    Probably a roof top A/C and some interior heater. In rough weather I'd like to have some cover for it that would keep water out in case I did that turtle thing. An inflatable could be carried on top and maybe inflated if it ended up under the boat, so righting might be possible....that's another issue with a cat.

    While I'm posting this, it's not a SOR to just you Richard, but saying this is probably a minimalist approach acceptable for any boat. So, many of the landing crafts suggested wouldn't cut the mustard under 30'. Now, off to another post,

    Really like what you have drawn up, it should be a good seller for you as I would think many people would be interested in such a boat!
     
  7. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Just a quick note on the motorcycle issue. Yes, salt water is a bad thing and the bike would need to be covered and washed very well after any exposure as soon as possible.

    It was mentioned that I take a bike trip then a boat trip, thanks. It's over 2,000 miles of a round trip to Martha's vinyard for example, to dothat and then go past months later in a boat is pretty silly, costly, time consuming, etc.

    A Transalp is a V twin, like a Harley cruiser, it has much more tourque than any single pop corn popper and it is a smooth engine at 70 mph for hours. I have had dual sports, like the XR 650, while you can go on the highway, you really don't want to. A gust of wind will put my 200 pound 6' frame in another lane, been there done that. It;s hard riding 2 up with gear. It's absolutely the smallest bike suitable for two riders riding say 250 miles for touring. The BMW 650 would come in close as well, but less power.

    While there would be an option of going much smaller, we would need two bikes and she doesn't ride except on the back. If it were just me, I could survive on a smaller bike.....but why? Since I own a Transalp? :rolleyes:


    Another PS. There is a TV commercial put out by BP oil promoting tourism in the gulf area, (oil propoganda) anyway, it shows a couple riding small motorcycles/scooters that appear to be dual sport (off road as well) in nature. I think they are the larger honda scooters, not sure. They maybe easy to ride especially for beginners and older folks, decent for touring and fine for less demanding off roading, like on paths or established trails. Would be interesting if anyone knows about them as they look like they would be stowable. I mean really, I just don't believe someone would rather walk and rely on others for transportation if they had a viable option not to....those are not that big...
     
  8. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    The one on the far right has possibilities, in plywood, heavy bottom and extending the cabin about 4'. I like that "arch" near the bow, loaded with lights it looks like. Three or four lights, million candle power spots would light up the Mississippi and have a couple work lights would be nice!

    I do like the industrial look, that functional look like a tug or trawler as opposed to the sporty Sea Ray look.
     
  9. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    wavewacker,
    then I gather you're on advrider.com as well?
    anyway I wasn't suggesting you iron butt the whole trip in one fell swoop, there's lots to stop and see along the way.
    other than the landing craft idea is the cat idea and i'm still trying to figure out how to stash the bike and load and unload it ..... cats have the cross members to which you'd have to drive over somehow, but you'd want to stash the bike lower below the cross bars to lower the center of gravity as much as you could. Prout Catamarans used a center pod and you could drive over the stern up to the center mounted mast, then lower the bike into the pod. Granted going over the stern would raise the whole landing operation quite a bit higher but you could motor up. Backing the bike, either in or out, now that would be a trick! In a DR650 or XR650 you could spin the bike around possibly before setting it into place. A transalp might take a bit more umph?
    I'm thinking the landing craft idea would be easier to do ..... and to modify almost any boat to have a "gangway" opening of say about three feet would be easy enough to do, like what i've shown but not car sized openings. And you'd find the gangway would be great for shore landings where you could just walk easily ashore kind of like an old paddle river boat steamer. Also pulling up to a "landing" of any kind you'd have the stern end in deep water.

    another idea is if you could just pull along side a dock and just ramp down and over to it but that would limit your availability on getting to shore. Not sure i'd want a motorcycle going over my docks and thru the marina .....
     

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  10. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Too bad their website had those broken links. I had to dig into their site to get the pics. I too like the one you're mentioning. I can see real possibilities with something like that, plus you could hire out your services along the way. There's always somebody wanting to move something to somewhere that the normal mode of transport just can't provide. Besides, you could have quite the picnic party and have all your friends over!

    edit: here's a link to their images page
    http://www.atec-usa.com/images/
     
  11. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Glad you liked the boat

    I don't think there is a problem with the windows (although of course you only have very basic drawings). They are flat 1/4in plexiglass with a painted frame to change the shape

    If you wanted to fit a bike in the hull then the space would be in the port cockpit side. You'd have to have the fuel tank(s) in the starboard side instead of in both hulls.

    We will use LED AA battery lights, so minimal wiring. We have an alcohol 2 burner hob and a 120/12v fridge and double sink ready to install. We will experiment with an Airhead.

    I think my friend rides/sails with a Sunbeam, BTW

    You won't capsize a powercat, don't even think about it.

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  12. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Well, I guess. I have done a little bit of load rigging, oil platform fabrications in Homa, La. for Raymond Inc. helicopters and aircraft in the Army and construction all in my younger years.

    I was hoping just to find a suitable jump near the bank and land on the back then raise the front wheel and while doing a wheelie, turn it for the next disembarking act.....;)

    The aft deck of the cat could have a slot for the wheels to set in lowering the bikd to the hubs. The slots would be boxed in and the dropwould not be that deep at the aft end. Even sitting on the H frame I described above, the center of gravity for the bike is about 16 inches, just below the jugs of the engine. Less than a fat guy standing up, I don't see any problem with loads shifting or it being top heavy.

    On most mono hulls (excluding an LC) a crane will be necessary. Depending on the craft and how close it can get to shore or any dock, it would basically go off either side, a ramp might be handy using the crane as well.

    Keeping weight in mind, not only the 325 pounds of bike, but also as to any platform and loading equipment and structural build up, a hay bailer spear that farmers use on pickups could also be adapted.

    With only 325 pounds, a single pole and a couple lines to tie it off and a block could also be fabricated rotating the gin pole.

    An A frame that folds over and a wench is better.

    The trick to easy loading is having several options depending on conditions. A ramp won't always work the best, but having a light weight ramp is part of the tools in the box.

    In many places, I could get two other guys and we could pick it up and carry it off or put it on!

    One reason for an outbaord is that it can be lifted and the stern beached in many areas, an I/O would be harder and an inboard probably not, unless you liked buying props. If it's a small OB, I could take it off and lay it aside.

    On a boat ramp, the bike could be set in shallow water, I can ride it out.
    Pretty sure I can ride up or down for 10 feet on a 12" ramp, like in the back of my truck.

    There are many variables and solutions to each, it's endless.

    It will need to be specifically fabed for the boat it goes on. A rack might be fabed of the stern of most any 24/26 footer, similar to a swim platform. It would be tail heavy for sailing I would imagine, but maybe that's why God gave us rocks and a mind to able to grasp the concept of balast.

    Don't get me wrong on your insistance about using a landing craft, it is a great possibility and would certainly be easier for the loading aspect, but that function is not so insurmountable to abandon better craft efficiency, living amenities and running economy for a few minutes of work. The time spent on loading and unloading compared to time cruising is minute.

    It's a question of opportunity costs, the best use of time, effort and economy.

    The most efficient craft will be one with a flat bottom, narrow with a pointy bow, I'm told and according to PAR I believe. Humping over a sharpie bow at the water line would not be a problem with an opening bow. Bantaan has discussed this in other thraeds and was a great helpon the issue. A narrow boat would be less stable and amas orfloats could solve the stability issue for most waters along rivers or in the open I would think.

    If not as efficient, the next seems to be a catamaran and it offers the stability sought for living conditions and crusing. Weight is an issue for small cats, but they will carry a load with less efficiency.

    Maybe a catamaran landing craft is the ultimate solution for this madness. But that presents slamming issues if the bridge deck were too low and the bow ramp needs to clear the length of the hulls forward when lowered, that might put a wall up for windage...and running it down I doubt would be much of a plus as running with your tailgate down on a pickup for better gas milage is a myth, IMO. The nice ones are in aluminum and buying an existing cat LC is out of budget!

    And to reality, the boat will not always be hauling a motorcycle, just at times and on this one expedition of the Great Loop. I believe it's best to go with a boat that can be modified to do the unique task and conforming to better cruising tasks than a boat specifically designed to do one thing well and all others slightly acceptable. So, in going with that in mind, so far it looks like a cat that can be modified.

    Lastly, while the topic has not been well received, sorta, I really think that many are missing an entire market of adventure bike riders that also like boats. I have brought this up with bikers and they get excited at the thought of having a cruising boat for miles of rivers, that they could live on and venture off on bike adventures at the same time.

    And, for those who have interests of just floating a bike, fishing and packing up to return home on a bike, check out Jack's Plastic Welding, a leader in inflatable tubes for river crafts.
     
  13. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Good morning Richard, like motor bikes maybe a "Big Boy" version is an idea in the USA. How much economy and speed would be lost with a widehull skoota version, keeping the same profile etc....? There may be a commercial market here for the folks who don't want to leave anything home. I wouldn't change a thing but America is the home of the supersize.
     
  14. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    That's why I drew the original Skoota 36. No problem with that in riding a bike straight up the transom passerelle and into the hold

    Or in my case have a 15ft sailing trimaran that is kept safely below, not on deck. It isn't just bikers who want a 'support" craft. Surfers and kayakers also like the idea of living aboard yet taking their "toys" with them

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     

  15. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Here is a idea for the really tight budgets. If you carry the bike as deck cargo on a cat why not lose the outboards? Combining elements of a long tail prop shaft with lawn tractor driveplate technology would let you use the bike for an engine. The shaft runs from under the deck into the water, there are stays to a support bearing if you haven't seen these, I'. thinking a reduction gear would be needed so a short shaft above it with the appropriate pulleys with a drive plat on the end. The motor bike when secured has the tire in contact with the drive plate. Something similar could be done with the bike drive chain but this way nothing needs to be taken apart.
     
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