AC 36 Foiling Monohulls

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by OzFred, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I guess the AC75 Class will be whatever the class calls it (mono, scow, skiff, whatever). However if it looks even remotely like Gitana 17 (which should not have been posted here), everyone will call it a trimaran regardless.

    Between say, a foiling IMOCA 60 or Mini 650 (which I think most would call monohulls) and boats like like the AC50 (which is unquestionably a multihull), there are plenty of shades of grey with boats like Blue Arrow or even Brett Burville's Z–foiled Moth.

    Along with the usual restrictions on the hull itself, the Moth class was likely the first to have to define a foiling multihull. It determined that if the foils exit the hull below the static waterline, they don't make the boat a multihull. Fortunately, multiple foils have proved inefficient so a single, central main foil is used and no further definition has been required.

    If someone was to create a scow Moth with Quant–style foils and twin T rudders and started winning races, the rules might need to be adjusted again. But that's extremely unlikely to happen. Maybe this is the AC75!
     

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  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    NZAC---without a keel!
    From yl75 on SA a Voiles et Voilers article predicting an ultra light ultra wide mono with very wide foils sort of like NZAC but with no ballast keel:

    AC75 by yl75.jpeg
     
  3. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    That would be a total disaster IMO. It won't be as fast as a cat and it won't have the popular appeal and relevance to sailors of a mono.

    We've had 20+ years in which the main promotion of sailing has been about skiffs, Vikings circling the world, and foilers. During that time the sport has dwindled quite sharply in many areas and the only large growth spots are in the slow classes. If the AC keeps going on its current course of promoting an inaccessible type of boat then it will be a symptom of thinking that will ensure the sport will never regain its former health.

    There was a worrying quote from Grant Dalton a while back in which he said that in a few years he wanted to be able to see at least two boats in Auckland using AC technology. Considering there are hundreds of boats that are there, it shows how out-of-touch the AC has become if that's the aim.

    What we need, perhaps, is a revolution - one in which the classes like the Snipe, Lightning, Laser, Solo, Sabre, ORC, IRC, PHRF boats and Hobies turn to World Sailing and say "*&^% you, we're going to form the Popular Sailing Worldwide and form a body that helps to promote an accessible form of the sport, just like a growing sport like cycling does.".
     
  4. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Sorry CT, you're on the losing side from last Century.
     
  5. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    If you are going to quote another post, please include a link. I also think there are copyright issues with reproducing articles in full. And please do not rename the AC75 Class after your invention.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  6. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I agree. A massive punt with foils seems like one of those boats that evolves from a set of rules with historic restrictions rather than a boat that is designed from scratch as a foiling monohull. The boats will be very much one–offs, and far less relevant to mainstream sailors than the foiling cats used in the last two cups.

    But if that's what we get, then so be it.
     
  7. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    I'm probably a bit less philosophical. So many people today have sat back and taken their information about AC history from PR bulldust, like a bunch of obedient lemmings supping from the PR puddle. The event has a history and purpose that are being distorted to harm sailing, in aid of buzzwords and bucks.

    We had a one-design regatta in town today with 90+ boats. Some people I've known for years were there with their kids or running the show. Time and time again they were saying that the basis for its success was accessibility - not image or performance. These were the people actually doing stuff, not the people trying to earn money from sailing or sitting on forums. They included people who had done the Olympics and the America's Cup, and their plans to help the sport did not include boats that can never be sailed at club level. Their plans included real people with real lives, and their plans were working in a way that the foilistas can only dream about.

    We almost need to split the sport in two. Those who want to sit back and watch hyper performance (and almost all of them are just consumers rather than doers) and those who want to actually promote the sailing that people can relate to and do. Growth sports like cycling do it - there are bikes that are 1/3 faster than the Tour de France bikes but they are banned from all the big races to allow people to concentrate on the accessible, popular equipment. We know that when they wrote the Deed for the AC, they wanted the boats to be seaworthy enough to sail an ocean and they sailed the sort of boats that were normally used in typical regattas. It has degenerated badly.

    I actually sailed to a spot where I had a loose appointment to sail a different type of foiler, so it's not about being against foiling per se. It's about putting the major events of the sport into an elitist, inaccessible niche product rather than into one that a significant proportion of sailors can do.

    'Scuse the rant.
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==================
    NZAC is not the AC 75 class, it is a potential type of design that may be legal within that class. The article above may shed some light on the new boat or may be pure speculation....

    "Q" foils-which seem more likely after the Voiles et Voilier article. Foils extend out 24' (7.3m) from nearly the widest point on the hull:

    NZAC ONE     9-25-17  dl 002 - Copy.JPG

    UptiP foils that would probably be faster but not as maneuverable as "Q" foils:
    NZAC Version Two Foils (TC) 002.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  9. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    In France, Groupama stops its sponsoring, predictible consequence of the boat formula change. Not evident that a new french sponsor takes over, they are usually more attracted by transatlantic races, less cost and more popular in France with an important and more and more sophisticated TV coverage.
    Sponsoring. Après 20 ans aux côtés de Franck Cammas, Groupama arrête http://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/sponsoring-groupama-arrete-apres-20-ans-aux-cotes-de-franck-cammas-30-10-2017-11722319.php?cx_tag=contextual&cx_navSource=CxLireAussi&cx_artPos=2#cxrecs_s
     
  10. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Another take on the story:
    Groupama exits America's Cup challenge >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2017/10/30/groupama-exits-americas-cup-challenge/

    This leaves just 4 teams for the next AC.
     
  11. user63137

    user63137 Previous Member

    I did this concept. A monohull 75´ without keel or bulb . Just foils
     
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  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum,
    Very interesting concept. Perhaps it would be opportune to open a special thread to discuss this boat.
    Is not the sail-wing a little low when the crew member needs to move from one side to the other?
     
  13. user63137

    user63137 Previous Member

    I thought this, the cockpit floor is really low (close to hull) , and the sail-wing foot is not perpendicular to DWL. Anyway ,in the AC catamarans, the sail-wing foot is flush deck.
     
  14. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Do you think there is enough space between the mast and the jib? In any case, in the AC the helmsman crossed the back of the wing. I do not know if this movement is possible here.
     

  15. user63137

    user63137 Previous Member

    In this boat the crew can cross under of the wing , and back of the wing too.
     
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