AC 36 Foiling Monohulls

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by OzFred, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    In the video Luna Rossi video posted above Horacio Carabelli said "and with the time restrictions we had we opted to go with something more solid and be able to deliver to all the teams on time". it sounds like weight optimization was not a priority for the second design. My guess is the priorities were meeting the technical requirements, having the confidence of the teams, and meeting the schedule. Weight was probably less important than those three.
     
  2. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    You're probably right. Overdesigning when you're on the last iteration the schedule permits is a sensible strategy. Now one has to worry about last minute changes to the simulator prompted by the design change, software configuration management, and induced errors. I've been where they appear to be now, and it's not a fun place.

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
  3. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

  4. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Interesting, and it seems to be very plausible.

    I'm not sure about the article's claim that once the general media saw the cats, there was no way back. The media had seen a cat race for the AC in 1988, and then gave reasonable coverage to the IACC boats. The attitude of the general media towards extreme sailing can be summed up for me in an incident when I was in the press room at the 2000 Singlehanded Transatlantic race. Five of the top 60 foot tris were moored outside and the media office was buzzing in French when a local Rhode Island film crew came in and started to talk to media director, Marcus Hutchinson. After a few moments of confusion, the local journalist said "Oh, this is a boat race - we saw the masts and thought it was the tall ships event". They then drove away, looking for the square riggers that were elsewhere in town.

    It was only once incident, but when a media crew cannot tell the difference between a bunch of carbon wingmasts bearing ads for French firms and the square rigs they were looking for, it indicates how lowly rated the boat itself can be when it comes to attracting the media. I recall that during the early rounds of the last AC, the foiling cats were being out-rated by a dog agility broadcast that showed poodles jumping through hoops. Extreme just doesn't really rate.

    The article also dismisses the claim that the extreme nature of the AC75 may have dissuaded smaller teams by saying that the smaller teams that have entered the AC have not raised that as an issue, but that ignores the fact that it looks as though the smaller teams may not actually make the starting line, and also that other potential challengers may never have raised their heads because the new boats were too costly and extreme.
     
  5. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I guess that cuts both ways. If the equipment becomes irrelevant to average punters, then whether the boats are traditional 4kn slugs or super high tech foilers becomes irrelevant. It's all about colour and movement, and whatever drama the production (commentators, camera angles, coverage, promotion, production, etc.) can whip up.

    It seems axiomatic that if the cost to enter is lower, then more teams will enter. But the goal of the America's Cup seems to be to try and be as bleeding edge as possible, so the costs are likely to be enormous and the risk of failure in any one of a dozen different ways very high. For the AC75, I guess the designers wanted their talents to be on display as much as the sailor's skills. That's much easier to do with a 75' foiling mono that looks radically different to any other boat than, say, a 12 metre yacht, which is virtually indistinguishable from every another yacht to all but the aficionados.

    Maybe slightly off–topic, but imagine poor Silvia Bertagna whose first time sailing ever was on board a GC32 in a full–on race. How will any other sailing experience top that? The grin on her face probably still hasn't worn off.

     
  6. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Sure, but the "spectacular and extreme" approach was justified by the claim that it would get extra viewers. If it hasn't done that - and working it out is of course probably impossible given the changes in media technology - then how can the smaller fleets of the "extreme" era be justified?

    The AC hasn't traditionally been bleeding edge; that's just a fairly recent piece of PR BS. In the "classic" era, for instance, there was very little difference between an AC boat like Valkyrie II or Vigilant and a big non-AC boat like Britannia, Satanita or Ailsa. In the J class era there wasn't a great gap between the non-AC Velsheda or Cambria and (say) the first Shamrock J. In the 12 Metre and IACC eras the AC boats were miles behind the bleeding edge of creations like Manureva, Windward Passage, Charles Hiedsieck (sp), ENZA, the ORMAs, etc.
     
  7. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    All true and the changes have come about because designers have learned how to make boats go faster.It was designers who made the boats of the "classic" era referenced a bit faster than those that preceded them by moving the ballast outside the hull and eventually onto fin keels.Whether these advances were incorporated into the boats racing for the AC or not is a fairly interesting topic for debate.

    The acid test is if a client can be found to finance the construction of a boat to a particular design and since the NZ big boat challenge in 1988 the range of boats selected for the AC has increased in scope.The competition itself is between large egos and large bank balances and I don't suppose the principals are too concerned with spectator numbers.They want to win and I expect the bragging rights matter more than the number of eyeballs glued to TV sets.It needs to be kept in mind that the AC75 class was selected by the victors last time round and I suspect that a good deal of preliminary work had been done before revealing the boat parameters to give a head start to the home team.As things stand,there are design teams preparing for several boats and a number of small scale test boats already in action.It seems a healthier and busier environment than those days of 12 metres when two defence candidates fought for the right to defend against a sole challenger.
     
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  8. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

  9. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Looking at the most recent video of the Luna Rossa test boat, it looks quite good (albeit in glamour conditions with world class sailors for crew). It doesn't look much more difficult to sail than say a Quant, but likely costs quite a bit more. :)

    Yes, I should have qualified that with "recently". But I think designers and builders tried to push the envelope to the extent they were allowed. An aluminium hulled challenger in an era where aluminium cricket bats were banned. Now that's bleeding edge! :)
     
  10. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I see they got this thing to work. I am impressed. It is now proven that foiling monohulls can be scaled up.
     
  11. fastsailing
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    fastsailing Junior Member

    By the deed of gift of course. It very clearly specifies a "fleet" of 2 boats competing against each other.
    There is no need for any other justification.
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    The point is that people like Coutts justified the change to faster boats by saying there would be bigger fleets and more viewers. They chose those reasons to justify the change. If Coutts etc had said "we just want fast boats and we only need two of them under the Deed" it would be a different matter. But they didn't say that. They promised something and they did not deliver.

    It's a pretty basic issue - if you promise something then you should deliver on that promise.
     

  13. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Interesting thoughts from Simeon Tienpont on the Dutch entry for AC36. He's started planning for the next one.
    America's Cup: Plenty of options for DutchSail ahead of AC37

    Double America's Cup winner and Volvo Ocean Race 24 hour record holder Simeon Tienpont says he will take a few weeks to consider his options, but ultimately he is "still very passionate about the America's Cup and trying to get a Dutch Challenge together."
     
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