AC 36 Foiling Monohulls

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by OzFred, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. schakel
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    schakel environmental project Msc

  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    There some video a page or two back showing the INEOS proto crashing and it has done so several times. No big deal as best I can tell.
    I wouldn't think this system would be more stable than an AC 50 on foils-but not too much less stable. The AC 50's had an advantage because they used differential lift on the rudder foils which allowed the windward rudder foil to add to the total RM of the boat by using downforce.
    As I understand it it is illegal for the AC75 to use downforce on the windward foil-I may be wrong or that could change as things develop.
     
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  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  4. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    That depends on your definition of "stable" (I guess you mean when foiling). The AC50s may have looked stable but they were being sailed by extremely competent professional sailors. The two AC75 test boats that have been revealed are really nothing like a full–sized AC75, the INEOS surrogate is 28', American Magic's is 38' so not really a great indication of final performance as nothing on those boats will be used for the real thing.

    I expect in the hands of expert sailors the AC75s will look very stable, but amateurs will be way out of their depth.

    As for nose–dives, there have been glimpses of a few in the INEOS boat, none of the American Magic boat as far as I know (which isn't saying much). When they occur they can be violent and cause injuries, crew wear helmets and body armour for a reason. All well and good in the hands of expert professionals who know the risks and take precautions, but if this technology is applied to cruising boats (which I don't think will ever happen) it will be very dangerous, not to mention totally impractical.

    But for an AC, where money is no object and practically has a weighting of zero? Great stuff.
     
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  5. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Back when sailing was much more popular, money and practicality were both considerations in the AC. Both the sport and the AC are now sadly out of touch with mainstream society and mainstream sailing.
     
  6. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Yeah, I remember that time. That time of 60ft lead mines which no single individual or organization could afford; when they had to form "syndicates" to raise enough money to pay for designs which might go 1/4 knot faster than the competition; or be just slightly more maneuverable to out beat them. But then there were usually many more competitors. Yeah, it was somewhat boring. And it seemed a bit silly at a time when relatively cheap production yachts could sail at double-digit speeds. But maybe all this high-tech finery-- doing something just because we can-- has gone a bit too far. Boats which can foil at highway speeds have no practical implications for the average sailor. They may merely be a statement of "Mine is faster than yours," which is probably nothing more than a version of "Mine is bigger than yours". Let the team with the most bux win.
     
  7. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    I don't believe for a moment that mainstream society has any interest at all in sailing.
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    AC 75 proto INEOS Harry KH photo.jpg

    I think it is a great time of adventure! A time where wild dreams can come true and where new ideas are (mostly) welcome. The boats resulting from the Foiling Revolution will be pioneers that will spark the future of sailing for everyone.
    Imagine a 132' cruising boat with a 29' DSS foil! Imagine that there are KEELBOATS capable of foiling-some able to fly in as little as 5 knots of wind! Imagine an Optimist pram on foils! This is a great time, a special time in the glorious history of sailing! Relax and enjoy it.......



    Quant 23 in very light air.JPG

    CharalDefiAzimut2018byZedda_06.jpg

    Gitana 17 at the Route du Rhum start.jpg
     
  9. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    I am enjoying it immensely.Its also true that a smaller number of people are either participating or following sailing.Should we care?My feeling is that if they are doing something that satisfies them there isn't a huge loss to any of us.At least we now have a type of AC racing where position changes are possible,it only takes half a minute off the foils and the race is alive again.I think the next AC will be a huge learning experience and the following series will have the opportunity to take the lessons learned and build on them.At the very least the spectrum of sailing activities has been widened;I found it telling that a few weeks ago there was a post on this forum alerting us to the availability of free downloads from Peter van Oossanen's website relating to 12 Metre design.He has clearly recognised that there won't be a stampede of potential owners beating a path to his door and is making the accumulated knowledge available.
     
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  10. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Depends on your information and your definition of "any interest" and "mainstream". Here in Australia, as one example, the forecast for the Sydney-Hobart next week was the second or third item on the sports report on the radio as I was driving home yesterday. There's a full telecast of the Hobart start and hundreds of thousands of live spectators. just about everyone knows of the Hobart here, although it no longer gets as much reporting on TV as it used to before canters came along. A few years ago, the AC win in a leadmine was still rated by a major national survey as the most inspirational moment in our sporting history.

    In the UK sailing was ranked as the 19th most popular funded sport, just behind rugby league - that's not too bad although it is dropping fast which is proof that the "revolution" has not had the benefits that some claimed it would. Ainslie is written up in celebrity magazines. It's not a tiny sport. In the past, sailing had an even higher profile. But if you're right, and mainstream society has no interest at all in sailing, then it proves that the claims that the AC's switch to foilers is a failure in terms of creating a new and more prominent image for the sport.

    Does it matter if sailing dwindles and gains an even more elitist image? I'd say it certainly does. It matters when politicians can close off access to waterways and boat facilities on the grounds that "all sailors are rich so they can just pay more". It matters when chandleries and other suppliers close down through lack of customers. It matters when clubs collapse or are taken over by social members who vote to get rid of the dinghy park in favour of tennis courts.
     
  11. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    According to the UK's major sporting body, activity in sailing has declined by over one third in a decade. The sport is not doing well. Relaxing and enjoying the collapse of sailing is not a healthy thing for anyone who loves the sport to do.
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===================
    And what kind of sailboat has Ainslie sailed for the last few years?
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  14. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    He gained his prominence sailing Lasers and Finns. Check Google analytics, for example. Ask yourself why, if his prominence is related to a failed AC campaign, he was knighted before he sailed a foiler. He was appearing on game shows before he sailed a foiler. He was named as an Olympic flag bearer before he sailed a foiler.
     

  15. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Ahh yes, not a single piece of actual data. Very convincing. So you're claiming that Sport England's massive national surveys are wrong? You're claiming that the Australian national surveys are wrong? Both of them show evidence of falling numbers. Even the piece you linked to notes "For sure we should continue to worry about falling participation numbers".

    You can't post pieces that tell us to worry about falling participation numbers while implying that there are no falling participation numbers and that the official data is wrong.
     
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