A very heavy pine beam is loaded with pine sap, how to remove for gluing?

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by sdowney717, May 3, 2025.

  1. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I found a very strong pine beam, has no deflection when people stand on it. IT seems like it has the strength of oak. It was a 4x6x8 but I have been shaping it for a possible keel repair. It is very resinous. When I run a grinder with 24 grit, it cuts but it loads up the disc. You can feel the sap on the wood surface. I was thinking to dissolve with gasoline. If I use some of this, it will be bronze bolted into the keel with 1/2" bolts. And also notched ends to fit into the existing keel wood. the keel repair section might be 3 to 4 feet in length on the keel bottom, above the worm shoe. And in profile 4" wide and 3 " tall for the repair section. I can either fix the keel now or wait till another haulout, I found this section has some worm damage. When I was looking at it, I thought it might be an easy repair.
    Since boat is hauled for months, this section is where a supporting keel block holds up the middle of the boat, so a ton of weight is on this spot. Both engines are in the center of boat and boat is 37 feet. And I figure worm damage is allowing the oak wood to compress. It was not doing that immediately after hauling.
    I don't want to fix everything and then find this section leaks in water. This keel section has deformed upwards about 1", and looking at the side wood grain, it is only on the keel edge. Was thinking maybe cut it up an inch at a time and look for worm holes, and keep going higher until not more than 3" is cut.
    Entire height of the skeg keel here is about 10"

    Gas is a strong solvent and cheaper than rubbing alcohol.

    I have with difficulty since it is so heavy, and 8 feet long been cutting it in my big cast iron table saw.
    I have had it for over 20 years outside on the ground and couple years ago brought it into my shed. Has some small surface damage. As I was trimming the edges back, this piece has kept its weight and strength. It must be very dense wood? This thing feels like a piece of concrete.

    I also have a 2x6 about 6 feet long of SYP which also super heavy and both pieces are dry throughout.

    Both pieces weigh 4 times more than the same typical piece of syp in their sizes.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2025
  2. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Many a boat in Scandinavia made from good pine, especially slow grown, dense stuff from up North. Better than Red Oak anyhoo.....
     
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  3. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    If you are bolting, or using spikes, then gluing wont be needed. You could use a bituman tar or polysulfide.
     
  4. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I am used to gluing stuff, but I see what you mean.
     
  5. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    What I should do is test the wood to see if it can support the hull. Put it under keel and jack, see if it can lift without crushing.
     
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  6. Howlandwoodworks
    Joined: Sep 2018
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    Howlandwoodworks Member

    Pitch pine glue.
     
  7. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Decades ago, I discovered when blocking and jacking, the weight bearing on pine wood was too much for it under the engines, the wood compressed. I had a used a piece of PT pine deck board and it absolutely crushed it.
    I then used some old steel 3/4" thick flat plates of size 8 x 6 and 10 by 8 to press up on keel, a hydraulic jack and some large marina wood blocks and that worked.
    I think the marina blocks being very large and relatively light weight are Douglass Fir.
    Today I have two 50 ton hydraulic jacks and they can easily lift the boat. The other jack was a 20 ton, and could but not very well.

    Ever since, I have avoided any pine wood for keel repairs. But I think this piece and the other I have is so heavy and dense, it would support the weight.
    I do not want to drive 50 miles down to Yukon lumber in Norfolk VA and spend another $100 for a piece of white oak.
     
  8. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Got these a few years ago for house jacking. I had bought a 20 ton from Home Depot, and what a disaster that was.
    These have been great .
    Their bases are wide enough, they can bear directly on the marina blocks.
    upload_2025-5-4_9-38-24.png
     
  9. Howlandwoodworks
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    Howlandwoodworks Member

    As you would likely already know the saw dust would be highly flammable and very toxic. Heart pine/Fatwood.
     
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  10. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I cut a lot on this beam already, not a problem, the 10" saw blade is almost new, it cuts without getting hot.
    I have never had a reaction to any sawdust wood yet in my life, although I can imagine some is. I never wear masks sanding , I have likely breathed lot of fine wood dust over decades, including PT wood, the old arsenic treated and the newer stuff. I am at 65 yrs old now and so far healthy enough, typical issues in life though for 65 yrs.

    Are you referring to cleaning pine sap with gasoline?
    Gasoline does dry completely.
    It is a cheap good common solvent.
     
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  11. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Even if your backbone was greenheart, putting a pad over the jack lift face to spread load is common sense. I have seen jack faces go into keels of all woods. Iron keel bands are great for that sort of handling.
     
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  12. fallguy
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    fallguy Boat Builder

    I’d avoid using gasoline.

    If the resin is in the wood, then this is a good quality. If there are bleeding pitch pockets; use heat to get them to drip out. Kerosene is the common solvent used in industry for pine pitch.

    And it smells much better than gasoline.

    Obviously, if you know much about benzene; gasoline and kerosene are very similar. But I’d still use kerosene to wash the wood; despite gasoline being perhaps the better solvent.

    And whatever you do; don’t use the heat and the gasoline together…but I’m patronizing you. This is for others.
     
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  13. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Oh, I did. It literally crushed the pine
    The oak did not crush at all, neither did Cumaru

    I had the keel then a pine support, then the steel plate, the jack pressed on the steel plate
    Some pine is soft. It is why I used Cumaru for a worm shoe, but the worms ate that very hard wood worse than swiss cheese looks
     
  14. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    All solvents will burn.
    I am planning on using a paint brush with the gas on the wood surface from a bowl of gas. Then scrub and wash with dish soap.

    Kerosene is very pricey here, and hard to get.

    I have used gas for cleaning many greasy bearings and car parts over decades.

    Watched a video where guy said about pine sap, if you can heat the wood, the sap will crystalize in the wood. But this piece is too big, and I don't have access to kiln dryer.
     

  15. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Those buggers must have some teeth, that "Brazilian Teak" has twice the crush strength of Iroko.
     
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