a question on canoe building

There is some skill needed for sanding but not a lot. Some effort his always required to obtain respectable results, but it’s more a question of having the neccessary tools and knowing how to use them. For the glued chine log shown in my blog, you will need:-

Circular saw or table saw to cut several thin strips of wood for the chine logs and inner/outer gunnels
Jigsaw for cutting the ply; this can be done using a circular saw if you can get some plastic foam to protect the table, or a hand panel saw.
Lots of clamps. You can make small clamps from plastic pipe, slit it lengthwise and cut it off in short lengths.
A plane for trimming edges: you can do this by sanding but a low angle block plane is ideal.
A hand or electric drill and some small bits around 3 mm.
Something to cut the bevels on the bottom/sheer planks. You can do this by sanding or planing.
Something to hold the bilge planks firmly inplace while the epoxy sets. Elastic cords or springy (nylon) string will do, and a few small screws or tacks.

Before building boats my expertise in woodworking was limited to repairing fences and pottering around the house. I did not have good skills, patience or nice tools, or even the knowledge to keep them sharp. I have built several boats, but learned most of what I needed to know on the first boat which was fine from ana apperance and construction point of view even though the design was useless. You probably already have the tools and knowledge what you need.

 

ok guys, it is time to take a few days to think what i am going to build depending also
on the conditions here in the school. no point in asking any more questions unless it is something practical or technical that has to do directly with what i am building and not just general questions.
i think that in a few days i will start building something and post photos. i really appreciate all you comments, you have been very helpful.

 

I was in your shoes a year ago yoram

I can't post pics now because I'm at work and the picture site is "access denied", so if you want to see a sof kayak I built google "chuckanut kayak", I have a thread on the woodenboat forum. Dave Gentry will send you free offsets to build one if you PM him on that forum. It is his design and I like it so far.

Cover the boat in 8 ounce per yard polyester fabric. Google "George Dyson", I believe he ships anywhere in the world, his fabric is great and the price ain't bad. (Costed me $40 american for the skin for my 15' kayak). Nylon works well too, and is actually tougher than polyester, but heavier too and more expensive. George Dyson will e-mail you a facts sheet about the differences between the possible covering materials. IMO don't use cotton canvas though. My first skin on my kayak was cotton canvas, and I would accidentally hole it all the time. The polyester I'm not even careful about it's pretty tough and I haven't been able to hole it yet, despite some accidental drops/knocks/etc. I even accidentally jammed a screwdriver into it and it didn't hole (though I wouldn't try that trick again )

For coating the fabric, don't sweat it. The best stuff you can buy is "Corey's Goop". Get it at skinboats.org. It is a two part polyurethane that will make your skin bulletproof (almost). Costs $60 american. But it is not necessary at all. Many many builders just coat the skin with oil based paint, or with polyurethane varnish. It really isn't that critical. Just don't put too many coats, it is tempting to but unnecessary to do more than 2-3 coats of any coating IMHO because it just adds weight.

A couple other beginners tips in SOF: don't coat the frame in epoxy, it just adds weight/sanding and is unnecessary. You may want to coat the edges of the plywood frames with epoxy, just because they tend to suck in water, but the rest of the frame you can just oil and avoid sanding altogether. As far as fastening the frame together, the general consensus seems to be that lashings are all that's needed. Use some braided 50lb fishing line and some eskimo knots to lash the frame together. No glue and no screws necessary. The skin is what really holds these boats together, and lashings allow some flex in the joints, making them stronger. You can also save time by stapling on the skin instead of sewing. Staple it to the gunwhales with some stainless staples, and then cover the staples later with a rubwhale.

If you go with it, you can build a canoe in about 3 weekends for about $150 american. Dave Gentry bangs these boats out like clockwork, and is always experimenting on design, because they are so cheap and so quick to go together.

 

i have tried to google George Dyson and got many interesting results but i did not get his web site or email. if you have it, could you please send it to me 108yoram@gmail.com or just post a message here?

right now i am thinking about building the sof canoe (not a kayak). we have here nylon that is used to cover furnitures and floors when we paint to protect it from the paint.
i am sending photos of the nylon. is that good enough to cover a canoe?

i am asking that since i am trying to use only materials that are already here without buying anything. if the school would pay for the materials, which i will know in a week or two, then i would like to build a proper sof canoe with all the right materials and for that i would like to have George Dyson email.

thanks

 

I sent you an e-mail with George Dyson's contact info.

You can cover the frame in almost any material yoram. I initially covered mine in cotton canvas painter's tarp. Lots of people cover their kayaks in transparent plastic material like the one you took pictures of. These materials work fine in the water, but don't give peace of mind. I found myself putting a hole in the skin every other time I would put the kayak on top of the car. Wound up with alot of duct tape patches!

For $40, IMHO, the polyester is a real bargain, and you will rarely have to deal with holes in the skin (I haven't holed it yet, and I'm pretty clumbsy!)

 

i got the email, thanks. 40$ is really cheap. i am going to order as soon as i know what i really want to build.
i think for now i will start building the frame in a few days of a canoe or a kayak and cover it with nylon we have here. if all goes well with it i will build another one with polyester for my girlfriend so we could go canoeing or kayaking together. did anyone build the sea bee from Yost works?

 

I am stuck between the seacruiser and the seabee for my next kayak myself. The way i see it, the sea cruiser will be faster, have less windage and roll easier, but the seabee will be more maneuverable, more comfortable and easier to store/transport. May also take longer to build because it has more chines. The sea cruiser is more traditional too i like that... may have to just build both!

 

That would be my choice . . .

 

guys help me understand. i am trying to figure out the Sea bee. on the offset page http://yostwerks.com/SeaBee13Offsets.html it seems like they have 5 sections (cross sections) but in the photos http://yostwerks.com/SBSectionsA.html http://yostwerks.com/SeaBeeFrameA1.html
there are only 4 sections. how come?
how come the Sea bee has 3 chines and a gunwale and in the photo http://yostwerks.com/SeaBeeFrameA1.html there are only keel, gunwale and another stringer? what determine the 5 chines? the shape of the cross sections boards?
how come in this photo http://yostwerks.com/SBSectionsB.html there is only one chine offset and in the offset table there are 3?

it is my first time understanding this data, so please have patience

 

It's likely that the Sea Bee comes in both hard-chine and multi-chine versions. Suggest you google for more information, a lot of folk have built it and there is sure to be some Net discussion.

 

i am a bit puzzled about the See bee kayak. i have decided to build it. i tried to measure the cross sections and mark it on the plywood. it looks very small to me. is it really like that? could you look at it and tell me if 27.89 cm could be the maximum height of the kayak? i am just looking for reassurance before i cut the plywood boards. i have attached a photo and put a card (standard credit card size) for the perspective.

thanks

 

From the offset table at section 3, subtracting the keel height above base (HAB) from the deck ridge HAB I get
0.915 - 0.004 = 0.911 feet = 27.77 cm

All the height measurements are taken from an arbitrary baseline, not the keel.

Apart from that tiny error your answer looks correct.

 

The original seabee had only one chine and a shallow v-bottom. It may have had some performance issues, so Tom Yost re-drew it in multi-chine form and supposedly it is a much better boat now.

When you cut out those notches for the stringers, try and be sure to make them a little shallower than the dimensions of the stringers. That way the edges of the notches won't bulge under the skin. One more lesson I learned the hard way

I think I may do the seabee as well, though it's still a toss-up. What kind of wood are you using for the stringers Yoram?

Reason I ask is, the typical scantlings for Yost's boats are for Cedar, a light but relatively weak wood. Because I am cheap, I plan on using construction grade fir (without knots of course) for the stringers/whales/keel/etc. I am considering cutting down the scantlings a bit to make up for the stronger but heavier Fir. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

 

ok so i think i could cut the boards and be relaxed about the measurements. i went to the marina today and checked out kayaks and they are really very long and narrow and not more then 30 cm high.

since i am trying to make the kayak from all kind of stuff i have here in the school and buy as little as possible (i like to have this efficiency or to be cheap, if we want to call it in it's proper name. it gives me a special satisfaction that is much bigger then the one i get if i would have built a beautiful, expansive boat). i got some wood that used to be the support under the mattress in the bed. i will try to upload a photo. it comes in 5x1x85 cm pieces and i glued 5 of them to make 425 cm long for the stringers. it is some kind of hard wood. maybe you could identify it.

for the keel i will use a construction wood we have here which is 2 cm thick 4 cm wide and will have the length of the keel. i have some old pieces of 18 mm plywood for the bow and stern and some plywood i got from the garbage container of a local wood store for the cross section. (i am that cheap) and nylon we got here for the skin. if it works well in the water, i will either put the polyester fabric that i plan to buy on it or build a new one, after learning from the building process of this one.

 

and another question (they always come up...) how come in the offset table, in which the arbitrary base line is zero, the keel is never zero? the minimum of the lower point of the keel is 0.12. what is this gap for? isn't the minimum point should be zero?