A Question About Planking

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Thanks, PAR, for your explanations. I was thinking of constructions like those of the figure and, of course, I had never thought of using plywood boards but solid wood boards in both cases.
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I still do not understand why one method or another need larger scantlings or why the fact that the tables are glued gives rise to much larger scantlings. It is very likely that the "clinker" will produce heavier hulls. In order to be able to affirm it would have to consider all the structure, not only the planks of the shell. But I, who have no experience in this type of construction, I can not know. I only ask questions and I question what I do not see clear.
I found the following on the internet:
“Using carvel planks to construct a hull is when planks are fixed to frames with their edges butting up against each other. This method of construction produces a smooth hull, however, the seams tend to require caulking (except in the case of very small boats) and generally it is heavier to similarly sized clinker boats. The construction detail does make a strong hull.”​
See also : http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/ask-the-experts/what-is-the-difference-between-clinker-and-carvel-construction.aspx “Clinker built vessels are lighter”
Which seems to go against some other opinions. In short, I still do not understand. Anyway, many thanks for the explanations.
Though a clinker is a beautiful look, it is slower and heavier. I should also mention, though tardily, that my source of power not under sail will be...lol, me. Oars. Less wetted surface=good. I did consider a Whitehall as well.
 
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ORNAMENTAL-V-GROOVE-WHEEL-TRACK.jpg

Not exactly the same, but one can imagine that this flat-V-flat profile is stronger-and-stiffer-in-all-directions1 than any piece of the same material in the same amount and length but just flat, which also goes for the obtained overlaps profile in glued lapstrake plywood, which becomes as one piece in the build process.

1 Except for pure tensile load, because then both will perform equally since the cross-section of the tensile loaded area remains to keep the same value in this case where the amount of material and the length are not changed.
Edit 1 = added footnote.
Edit 2 = enlarged the footnote a bit in an attempt to enhance TANSL's understanding of this matter.
​
Nope. I dont buy that. The panks make a monocoque body in both cases. Q is, is which is stronger? Wow! I spelled "monocoque" correctly. Lol.
 
These types of conversions are pretty common place and I get several requests for this each year. There's no debate about lapstrake, regardless of type being lighter than carvel as well as other methods, such as batten seam, double planked, etc. With the exception of molded veneer builds and of course the introduction of manmade fabrics, lapstrake is the lightest of the traditional builds and glue lapstrake much lighter.

Plywood as planking is actually weaker than solid wood planking, but being much more dimensionally stable and coupled with glued seams, permits the same thickness planking, while the gross reduction of other structural elements, (no frames, no stringers, etc.). In fact, it's generally accepted that you should use the same thickness plywood as the original planking was in a carvel build. This is because of the weaker longitudinal stiffness of plywood, compaired to solid stock. In a traditional build comparison, keeping things relatively equal, (solid stock planks, typical frame arrangements and spacing), there's little difference, in fact possible a slight disadvantage to lapstrake. On the other hand, if you take the longitudinal stiffness the laps bring to the mix, you can decrease the size of the framing elements and the planking slightly, allowing the hull shell bare more of the loading. This is usually accomplished by increasing frame spacing, though can (has) be carried out to extremes on some racers.

Lastly, given a choice, plywood planking is simply a better material than solid, for several reasons. It is heavier than solid of the same physical dimensions and isn't as stiff longitudinally as solid, but cross grain stiffness and strength is much higher, plus the dimensional stability and if coupled with glued laps, makes the end result considerably lighter. Of course typical plywood is quite ugly, compared to solid, but sliced veneer plywood is available if you need the bright finish.
Plywoods grains run 90deg to each other and is very weak when stressed in one direction as in bending. I would never use ply for an ocean going boat.
 
Particularly in smaller boats, carvel planking needs to be thicker than lapstrake to hold the caulking. Also, the framing is lighter because the seams are riveted or clenched together, which keeps them from opening. There are centuries of boatbuilding experience backing this up.
Is it true that when other ways of construction were discovered, lapstrake became less and less used? Boating is a trade off...you give you get. I like the look of lapstrake way better but not willing to trade looks for strength and performance. I like the dryer ride and the slightly better dynamic initial stability but wouldnt do anything for static stability as when at anchor...but its a trade off.
 
Comparatively, 'glass production boats built to the lines of their wooden counterparts are heavier, unless laminate stacks are engineered (they often aren't) and typically better than the usual hand layup resin/fiber ratios obtainable. In short, I've never seen a single skin 'glass production boat, built to a wooden boat's lines that can rival the wooden boat's weight. Now a composite or cored example of the same design can match and even exceed the wooden boat's weight savings, but matched with costs, typically quite a bit more expensive.

TANSL, you're correct, plywood isn't isotropic. It's about 1/3 weaker and less stiff across the grain, because of the veneer orientations. Custom plywoods are still available, though costly. These special order pieces can be had in longer lengths, with sliced instead of peeled veneers and various veneer orientations (22.5, 45 degree and unidi arrangements).

As Rumars mentioned, the lapstrake planking arrangement causes a physical increase in longitudinal stiffness, which is easily seen in the drawing you've posted. The laps form stringers of sorts and because they're glued, no movement unlike a fastened lap which does experience movement. This coupled (again) with the homogeneous glued assembly, makes an extremely rigid hull shell that can be devoid of all, if not most typical framing elements. The shell still needs internal support, but this is usual borne by furniture and well spaced athwart partitions.
Sure, if you can afford it. I dont dout the clinker might be as stiff, Im wondering how long in a seaway, will it hold its stiffness and begin to open. I dont know...boards lain over each other as oppossed to bead and cove end to end....Iwas in yacht construction for 20+ years and owned my own lil biz. Im a lifelong sailor. Before my career in the marine industry, I was a welder fabricator and designed and built everything I did almost...I know a lil about design but no expert. Im just saying im not a newbie to boats and physics.
 
Again, your assumptions are not based in fact, industry and class standards, nor including common physical properties or simple physics. Instead of conclusions based on assumptions, why not try looking into some engineering principles, such as why a welded plate hull is stronger than a riveted plate hull, which will offer a hint as to why lap is superior to carvel in this regard.
 
Ok, Ill do that right now and in the meantime, maybe post something solid instead of emotion.
 
What is the difference between Clinker and Carvel construction?

Carvel built wooden boats and tall ships are made by fixing planks to a frame so the planks butt up against one another. In Clinker building (or lapstrake) hulls the planks overlap along their edges. In a Carvel construction a smooth hull is created, that is stronger than a clinker built hull. However more caulking is required between the joints in carvel than in a clinker construction. The framing gives a carvel construction a stronger hull, meaning it can carry a full sail plan, and can have a longer and broader hull.

Clinker built vessels are lighter because they have less internal framing, meaning they move faster because they displace less water. Clinker vessels are less rigid then carvel constructions; this limits the type of sailing rigs the vessel can take.


clinker_vs_carvel.jpg

Our World is Water
 
Ok, now its a little clearer. Wul, thank you for your help Par
 
"Clinker vessels are less rigid then carvel constructions; this limits the type of sailing rigs the vessel can take". Ja get that? Make sense?
 
I think I remember that the Viking were limited to the size of their ship due to the clinker hulls.
 
From the same reference: Also, carvel planking could be thicker, and therefore stronger, because it did not have to be bent into position. I wonder if the author has ever seen a carvel planking installed on a boat. It has to be bent into shape, the same as for lapstrake/clinker. I would not take that reference as authoritative.
 
Windship277 Are you interested in traditional construction with carvel planks caulked but not fastened or glued together and traditional lapstrake construction with planks riveted but not glued together? Or are you interested in a glued construction with the planking material glued together? The design in your first post has a traditional shape but the plans show several variations of glued construction, only one of which has laps.
 
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