A maximalist outboard cruiser, why not?

Here is a picture and review of a 40' trailerable ("stickboat")consept, long, and narrow.

http://www.proboat-digital.com/proboat/20080405/

page 22, design concept.
Ok, you don't need the weighted keel, mast...
Just give you this link for information, seem like your pretty openminded, so your inspiration can be gathered anywhere .

 

Just to throw another spanner-like question into the works.... why restrict your search to an outboard powered vessel. You've read the Option One thread, so would probably be well aware of my enthusiasm for outboards, but (all other things being equal) there comes a point where they no longer make such a comanding argument. At 40ft and, more importantly, 6+ tons you may well have reached that point.
All propulsion systems have their advantages and disadvantages. I certainly wouldn't rule outboards out at this stage, but equally I'd be open to the use of other systems....

 

Well, this has been helpful in focusing our thoughts. Now, what is the next step? Hiring an NA/designer? How does one go about choosing for something like this? Do I just find a guy who styles boats like we want and trust he will be able to develop a good hull form for this sort of vessel? Or do I work it the other way round, or even use two different guys! How do you tell the good ones from the poseurs?

I think a few preliminary sketches will help narrow down our options as far as amenities, the same with weights and power requirements.

 

How do you tell the good ones from the poseurs in any profession? Doing the homework of searching through many reviews, reports, websites, articles, etc. to find some who've done something similar; interview, check references thoroughly, ask detailed and specific questions of the designers and the references, find out what owners think of the boats after several years, when the newness has worn off, etc. Some of it is hard to quantify; communication is critical, so finding someone with whom you feel comfortable discussing your lifestyle, likes and dislikes may become very important, as will finding someone who will actually listen to and value your input. I'd recommend a similar procedure for a builder. The designer you want will likely have some favored yards, and vice versa, but investigate even the recommended ones just as thoroughly. A lot of work on your part, but worth it.

Edit: Experience designing a similar vessel is important, but not necessarily critical. A designer with a good reputation and experience in a variety of vessel types might be the best choice, even if he/she hasn't done anything just like yours.

 

Westfield 11,

Just looking at the outlines of other designs can trigger new thoughts and concepts. This is the antithesis of your original proposal, but I just love the old fashioned look of a flush decker. http://www.anchoryachts.com/sya43specs.php

I suppose it's the equivalent of going to the hairdresser with the picture of a filmstar and asking for a cut that would mimic the look. To my eternal shame, Clint Eastwood as Rowdy Yates in Rawhide, oh so many years ago, mortal embarrassment.

Pericles

 

A thought on the tow vehicle. In many cities the need to deliver supplies forces the trucks to be vary different from the usual "18" wheeler seen in the super slabs.

These trucks usually will have a single rear axle and no sleeping cabin behind the cab.

Many will have air ride, air suspended cab and automatic transmissions.

With a truck weight of under 26,000 lbs no special drivers license is required .

This will tow at above legal speeds ANY light boat and trailer with ease.

Let the performance goals of your Ideal Cruiser be the weight limit , as these trucks can take the weight and should only cost $5K to $10K used , but very servicable.

FF

 

It sounds a very interesting project, and I think my method of construction would fit the bill. The fact that the interior is totally encapsulated with closed cell urethane foam, would make living aboard in those colder latertudes very cosey with zero condensation. Cheers from down under, Peter. wwwbourneboats.com.au

 

I want to thank FF for his info on the used trucks. There are some real deals out there now with the high fuel prices. The same with the "toterhomes" on medium truck chassis, just keep under 26k total weight, and you still have at least 15k for the boat.

I went back and took another look at the Devlin designs, including a couple listed on YW. Upon reflection they seem to also be very close to what would work for us. A 36' Black Crown with a beam of 10' or a bit under would be a suitable candidate although I would rather have a pair of outboards. I hope to dry sail this boat, but I know that it won't always be possible to do so. I want to be able to get the entire lower unit out of the water which I always thought was not possible with a I/O?

I will try to contact Mr. Devlin and see what he thinks of my ideas. I think it will all boil down to getting the hull constructed, after that any number of finishing shops on either coast can complete the vessel. There do not seem to be any stock molds for what I have in mind so we are looking at a one-off build. Stitch and glue plywood like the Devlin and Bolger boats have there advantages here, esp. since the Devlin shop is very experienced with this sort of construction. I think that fiberglass will require a more expensive female mold to be made from a male plug. Is this correct? I know that high density foam can be computer milled to make a full sized plug from which to make a mold, but isn't this exorbitantly expensive for a single hull?

As a big picture issue I think that the recent disparity in price between 87 octane gasoline and diesel (over $1 a gal in AZ & CA) is here to stay. Most diesel is used by industry and most of that is not discretionary. They are a captive market and must pay whatever is demanded. Also much of our current refinery output is old fashioned high sulphur diesel which is sold at great profit to Latin and South America, there is little incentive to switch over to making ULSD for the US market. These two factors alone will serve to keep the price of diesel high. On the other hand, the price of unleaded regular, if only for electoral reasons, will be kept as low as possible. As long as you can get a pair of new high efficiency, clean burning 2 or 4 strokes to burn the cr%p, I think plain old gasoline is the way to go for the next 10 years or so. At least for a boat like this with it's planned use profile. And if diesel outboards come along in a few years and change the equation, well then , it's an easy changeover compared to an inboard.

BTW, what are the dimensions of a 40' shipping container? Could a boat like this be shipped overseas in one?

 

You are far, far better off buying used, even if it requires re-powering, than building a new custom boat.

Standard max-volume container is 91" wide and 106" high, 40' long. This boat (below) will fit but only with the pilothouse folded down.

 

For easiest World cruising DIESEL seems to be a requirement , as gas is not in too many ports, at least according to this board when asked.

Diesel and no propane will be easiest to get aboard ship in a Container.

Diesel OB's might do, about 35hp but HEAVY!!.

While the lightest hull might be stitch & glue , I would think aluminum would be fast and cheap, and more able to take the knocking about and occasional grounding of a cruiser.

Since the boat would be easily sheet built , having it cut out and shipping it to great welders would be cheap & EZ.

My first choice would be in the New London area in CT , as the slow death of Electric Boat has loads of welders , with their weight in gov certificates, looking for work.

Tad , Any chance you could put an Atkin style box keel and reverse deadrise under the 39 ft cruiser? Easiest shipping and grounding , claimed to be smooth riding and efficient.

Engine would be the Ivecio 6 cyl,.non turbo, non electric injection .

Yes its 1200lbs , and the finished weight , folding PH and all would need to be under 8800lbs for Euro use.

CPP ok ($$$) if it makes sense for cruising at 300hrs a year.

FF

 

I am confused, gasoline is not available in overseas ports? In Europe? Can this be true, there are no outboard powered boats in Europe? I know they have lots of diesel cars nowdays, but last time I was there (Oct. '07) there was still unleaded available in the gas stations.

With the cost of diesel being 50 cents a gallon more than 87 octane (at least!) and the extra weight and expense of diesel engines I wonder if it isn't time to re-evaluate the gas VS diesel debate in light of changed conditions? One would have to put a lot of hours on a boat to amortise the extra costs through slightly better fuel economy.

 

Petrol (Gasoline) pumps are not as readily available in British marinas and ports as are diesel fuel pumps. Prices for red diesel were much lower, but that is changing thanks to the EU. http://www.ybw.com/mbm/redalert/

We pay $10 per gallon at petrol stations and have to hump the tanks back to the boat at many of the smaller ports. I know that sounds bizarre, but take a look at the Rye harbour site as an example. No fueling facilities mentioned.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/subjects/navigation/747415/187958/517630/?version=1&lang=_e

Pericles

 

Allready done! Well....sort of..... No reverse deadrise, rather a fair vee bottom with a prop pocket. Box keel for headroom and engine at the lowest point without a engine box in the cockpit. She can sit upright and be moved easily on the flat bottomed box.

 

When you compare gas with diesel you have to consider that
- one liter diesel contains more energy than one liter gasoline
- a diesel engine is inherently more efficient than a gas engine
In short, one liter of diesel is worth more than one liter of gas. Without checking the exact figures I would guess that you you will get 50% longer range from diesel compared to the same volume of gasoline.

Unfortunately a modern diesel engine is heavier than a modern fourstroke gas engine (260 kg compared to 160 kg for 80 hp) so I don't expect diesel outboards to become a hit. For an inboard engine I would choose a diesel any day, and if you can place it really low in a box keel the extra weight also does some good.

Safety aspects also favour diesel.

Erik

 

Renn Tolman has been working on a Seabrite version of his skiffs for some time.
Details are available below.

http://www.fishyfish.com/renn_tolman/index.html

http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/design/tolman/seabright.html

Pericles