a interesting little tri

[warwick]

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/a-fast-little-tri-on-an-economical-budget/

by Bernd Kholer

 

[pogo]

Very interesting;
Bernd Koehler: "I have designed, built, sailed almost everything that can sail."






pogo

 

[upchurchmr]

Why is everything getting progressively cruder?
Can you imagine bumping the amas (floats) on a dock or land and not having them break off? A couple of flat pieces of ply?
PVC tube amas? Great shape, ought to have lots of extra drag so you don't go too fast.
But you probably don't have to worry about burying a lee bow, doesn't look like it will hold up to that much load.
Can't say I really have confidence in 13 knots, either.

Bolger would have been proud.

Anyone actually seen one of these?

Interesting that you have to be stuck with paying for the plans before you can find out anything on his forum site.

Any reason why this wouldn't be just as good? Same plans site.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/gumprecht/drifter12/index.htm

 

[pogo]

Why is everything getting progressively cruder?

Because each fan follows the attitude, the " logical" approach of " his" designer, approving the "solutions" , giving confirmation.
A sort of catch-22.
See nearly all James Wharram's boats ( which have been designed by Hanneke Boon).
He sold an attitude, most of his boats have been far away from his clients needs---what they didn't notice.


Everybody gets the boat he deserves.

pogo

 

[Zilver]

Can you imagine bumping the amas (floats) on a dock or land and not having them break off? A couple of flat pieces of ply?
PVC tube amas? Great shape, ought to have lots of extra drag so you don't go too fast.
But you probably don't have to worry about burying a lee bow, doesn't look like it will hold up to that much load.

Hello,

I have build this tri and sailed it a lot during the last year.
The boat sails nice, and the PVC floats have given no problems.
Some might say the boat looks crude, but I happen to like the quirkyness.

A bit more info can be found here :
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/15/outings/waddensea/index.htm
(a short story about my coastal sailing trip)

and some extra pictures here :
http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/little-tri-leeboard-some-thoughts/

Greetings from Amsterdam,

Hans van der Zijpp

 

[oldsailor7]

I built a 16' Piver Frolic for my teenage son. I built it in a garage space in the car park under my apartment block in Toronto.
I dispensed with the dagger board and box, fitting fixed fins in the sides of the floats, of sufficient area.
Apart from enabling the tri to sit upright when sailed up a beach, it allowed the main hull to become a single berth, when covered with a tarp, while still having good windward ability. It had the designed self tacking jib and tacked quickly every time.
My son used to sail it across Lake Simcoe at night and in any weather to visit his Gf. It was a great little boat and plans are still available.

 

[Manfred.pech]

I built a 16' Piver Frolic for my teenage son. I built it in a garage space in the car park under my apartment block in Toronto.
I dispensed with the dagger board and box, fitting fixed fins in the sides of the floats, of sufficient area.
Apart from enabling the tri to sit upright when sailed up a beach, it allowed the main hull to become a single berth, when covered with a tarp, while still having good windward ability. It had the designed self tacking jib and tacked quickly every time.
My son used to sail it across Lake Simcoe at night and in any weather to visit his Gf. It was a great little boat and plans are still available.

http://www.ayrs.org/repository/AYRS023.pdf Scroll down to page 8 -10.

 

[Manfred.pech]

Hello,

I have build this tri and sailed it a lot during the last year.
The boat sails nice, and the PVC floats have given no problems.
Some might say the boat looks crude, but I happen to like the quirkyness.

A bit more info can be found here :
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/15/outings/waddensea/index.htm
(a short story about my coastal sailing trip)

and some extra pictures here :
http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/little-tri-leeboard-some-thoughts/

Greetings from Amsterdam,

Hans van der Zijpp

Thank you Hans for sharing your interesting experience. The little Tri is a really small is beautiful (SIB) boat.

 

[upchurchmr]

Please, someone help me.
Why is this better than the one in post #3?

 

[Zilver]

Please, someone help me.
Why is this better than the one in post #3?

It's not better per se, but for me the Little Tri is better than the Drifter 12 because

- it's bigger
- it's got a self draining cockpit
- it's got alu beams (less construction/maintainance)
- it's got pvc floats (idem, and I don't have to be too cautious docking etc.)
- it's got a simpler to step/unstep rig
- it's got a practical outside leeboard and open back cassette rudder
- I like the look and the squareness, it's more fun overtaking people when you're in a strange looking boat (a bit childish, I know).

I guess for you the Drifter is better because the floats look (and perform ?) better, and the whole boat in general looks neater.

Cheers, Hans

BTW the a-symetric cat in the background of the picture in post 3 looks interesting !

 

[BrianPearson]

Please, someone help me.
Why is this better than the one in post #3?

Here is Little Tri from above, looking slim, light and sailing well.

 

[upchurchmr]

Zilver,

Thanks for responding. But....

- it's bigger - So look at the 16' of the same design
- it's got a self draining cockpit - Got me there I think
- it's got alu beams (less construction/maintainance) - A single plank of wood is pretty simple, and cheaper
- it's got pvc floats (idem, and I don't have to be too cautious docking etc.) - Not sure I'd call this a benefit with the poor shape, low stiffness, and low strength of PVC. My other concern was how it is mounted. Looks easily damaged
- it's got a simpler to step/unstep rig - They both have an unstayed rig which can be removed from the boat by pulling upward. Mine has roller furling - easier to reef (actually most rigs like Little Tri can't be reefed), and there is no separate sail to store.
- it's got a practical outside leeboard and open back cassette rudder - generally a leeboard will work but not as well as a centerboard (the leeboard might be a benefit to some) and I don't know what actual benefit an "open backed cassette" is.
- I like the look and the squareness, it's more fun overtaking people when you're in a strange looking boat (a bit childish, I know). That's completely your choice which I'm happy with. Its just not my choice - I just want to pass them.

Obviously you like your boat and I am reacting to my prejudices.
Glad it works for you.

Actually the one I showed does not suit me, I would prefer something not flat sided with more sail capacity.

 

[Banzai]

Hi
the original post here was just to point out the design, not to compare it with something bigger , or smaller , or with a larger sail area , or a smaller one.
Depending on the choice of rig the sail would be able to be reefed in one manner or another.
As has been made clear, there have already been a few of these built. Obviously they go OK with performance into the teens. The various aspects of the construction are aimed at simplicity and low cost. I dont know what drainage pipe is like in other countries but the stuff sold here would stand up more than favourably against light ply wood , and as for the attachment method - it is surely up to the builder to create a certain robustness to suit local conditions.

The benefit of the leeboard is to open up the cockpit for camp cruising, so the comparison against a regular dagger board should take into account the intended use for the boat.

The open cassette refers to the rudder/tiller arrangement , which is essentially the same as the system used by Michael Storer and others including Gary Dierking, and which was the set up on the original home built Paper Tiger catamarans . It allows the blade to kick back from a forward OR rear connection with an obstacle, and also allows the boat to be sailed with just a bit of rudder down in shallow water, without that excessively heavy helm experienced with rudder blades folded back horizontally.
It is a great system, and I have got it on my current boat.

All in all the boat is what it is intended to be- economical, easy to build, and not lacking in performance. Bernd's plans are very reasonably priced , and the support is excellent. This from personal experience.
BTW you only have to get a study plan to join his forum

cheers
Banzai

 

[upchurchmr]

Zilver,

You have your settings so I can't email you.
If anything I should be apologizing to you.
My attitude was poor and there was no reason for it.

 

[Manfred.pech]

For those who want to camp cruise with a small boat (16 ft), this may be an interesting solution: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/13/designs/ectri/index.htm#.VrB9cFKZEQM . It was built within 6 weeks.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/trimarans-everglades-challenge-2013-a-46554.html

More DIY 16 footer: http://www.diy-tris.com/ and http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/smoot/slingshot16/index.htm and tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03CNVpiUpwE