A future sailboat ?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by WSW2016, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. BobBill
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    Location: Minnesotan wakes up daily, in SE MN, a good start,

    BobBill Senior Member

    FWIW = "for what it's worth"
     
  2. nota
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    nota Junior Member

    a real far future sail boat will not have or need
    a mast
    lead ballast or deep keel
    flip or sink

    it will be a cat so no lead and have positive flotation even multi holed or in pieces
    it will use a kite-sail so no mast so no weight up high so no flips
    kite can be depowered by letting a few strings go slack
    it will have foils and computer control of the kite, foils, and course/heading
    to lessen the chance of flip or impacts or idiots doing what they do best
     
  3. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Nota,

    I've heard that fantasy for many years now, when do you think it will happen?

    Careful with the idiots label, it covers a large territory.

    Are you going to demonstrate the way to go?
    You could use the Everglades Challenge to demonstrate. :D
     
  4. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Wait you want to make all of the ships propulsion dependent of the computer working? I have been on too many boats that lost electrical power for one reason or another to assume that a 100% reliable computer is even remotely possible.
     
  5. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Why would it be a cat? They take up more space on moorings (although in some places they can moor where deep keelers can't). They take up more space in marinas. Some people don't like having their accommodation split up into two or three separate areas and prefer having it inside the same space, as it is in a mono or tri. In small sizes, cats struggle to achieve headroom. Some people just don't like the way a cat feels under sail.

    At the moment I'm searching for a new cat to replace the one we currently have, so there is no way I'm biased against cats. The simple fact is that for perfectly logical reasons, they don't suit everyone.

    Why would it have a kite? How is a kite going to work in somewhere like the place I used to sail, where you get several hundred boats crammed together at times and there is simply not enough space to have kites operating at the end of long lines. How will it work when you are sailing up the narrows and reach areas where you get sudden calms and 90 degree windshifts?

    Not even the kitesailors who live in my city will sail on our lake very often, because even for keen kiters the conditions just are not suitable. If it doesn't work for keen performance-oriented sailors, how will it work for leisure sailors? What will happen when they get to the lee of the mountain and a 10 knot westerly is suddenly replaced by a northerly, then a calm and then a downdraft, all within a few seconds? What will happen in my old sailing ground when six smalls boats pass just to leeward of a ship or a ferry, and encounter the turbulence at the same time that three powerboats and four other yachts pass by to leeward?

    How will the kites be launched? Some systems show people floating kites astern from their yachts on lines about 100m or more before launching them. It is simply ridiculous to assume that everyone has that much clear space. If you did that near my old or current moorings, the kite would be tangled around about five moored boats. If you did that near a friend's mooring, the kite would tangle around the bridge carrying the busiest road in the whole continent. If you did that before a start at my club, your taut lines would slice the heads off 10 Opti kids.

    Why in the world would we all want computer controls? Many of us love sailing partly because we want the challenge of sailing ourselves. Having a computer do the trim for us would be about as much fun as "playing" chess by hitting the start button on a computer chess programme.

    Foils? Really? For everyone? Many people sail on fairly confined waterways. It is easy to have a boat that is too fast for small waterways, especially when cruising.

    The main factor that makes designs popular is their practicality. A foiling kite cat just isn't practical for most people, therefore it will never be "the future".

    Sailing is a sport, after all. The essence of every sport is that they prevent the use of the most efficient means of achieving the goal. Sometimes the most "efficient" way of doing things is the least practical and fun way.
     
  6. nota
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    nota Junior Member

    future is foiling
    and computers reacting far faster then a person can
    and are getting so cheap multi-units can be used to limit failures

    now just get rid of the sticks that fall or break or be a lever arm to dump you over
    get up on foils and go

    as I admittedly little understand kite foils
    they need a wide stable base to self fly with minimal triming
    that suggests a cat
    as does the foiling to also work eazyer with a wide light base that is form stable
    can and will other boats work sure

    sure sunfish and lazers will suit some people
    but foils are being made for them as we post
    and small crowded lakes or docks are another problem
    but not my ideal place to sail

    newer batterys [Li] will allow short el power to get in a twisted place or tight spot
    with computer control you need power and motors anyway to trim
    and I would expect a solar panel deck and/or generator powered by wind or water

    so no not everybody
    heck some love wood gaff rig boats and still will in the future

    sorry I am not a clubbie or a racer hung up on rules
    long time liveaboard at anchor cruiser who very rarely ever docks
     
  7. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Sounds more like a religious creed than a plan.
    Perhaps an extended haiku.

    Too each his own, but there are too many mystics looking to impose their vision on the world.
     
  8. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    But WHY is the future foiling? Repeating yourself isn't an answer.

    Why assume that there is more chance of a mast breaking (which is very rare in a cruiser) than there is of having problems that are just as bad with a kite (or foil)?

    They have already made Laser foils, they got a lot of publicity, they were very well made by some very smart guys, and it seems that very few people have bought them. That alone seems to be significant.
     
  9. serow
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    serow Junior Member

    newer batterys [Li] will allow short el power to get in a twisted place or tight spot
    with computer control you need power and motors anyway to trim
    and I would expect a solar panel deck and/or generator powered by wind or water

    Why don't you just stay indoors and watch sailing videos on you tube?
     
  10. nota
    Joined: Sep 2012
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    nota Junior Member

    there will always be guys who want a simple day sailor
    several boats I have owned never had motors
    I sailed miami to key west no motor with the wife and kids
    and back in 2 weeks on a old 24ft full keel lead mine
    my raven a lite 24ft c/b was 1/4 the weight and had twice the speed
    the 18 ft hobie was lighter and way faster then ether and more fun

    but if you have tryed to go places a 4-5 knot slow boat takes too much time
    I am thinking of the avg guy with a job who can't take off years or even months but has a 2-3 week time and a few long weekends
    foiling will extend range by 3x or 4x and turn 4-5 knots to 20

    time is the short supply thing that will drive foiling
     
  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    So far, foiling is primarily for racing and 'hot rod' recreation -sailing fast reaches back and forth near the put-in.

    I only know of one production foiling cruiser, and it is not selling well. The IMOCA offshore racers are semi-foiling, but they have yet to prove superiority -they are faster down wind but slower upwind. Anyway, the IMOCA boats can at least be discussed and compared in terms of 'range'. Other full foiling boats (all production) require full time piloting and very limited conditions.

    The point I am getting to is that you are wrong applying maximum speed in determining range -you need to use average speed over all conditions and realize that dead in the water might mean a dead crew. A cruising boat needs a sail plan map for every condition from light downwind to a gale upwind.

    I think foils are best used to bring high speed to small sport boats -so small they are easy to ship to the optimal locations and conditions they need. Foiling is best for making fun transportable boats, not boats that ARE transportation of any reliability.
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Skyak, what is the name of the "production foiling cruiser" that is not selling well?
     
  13. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I was thinking of the Gunboat G4.

    Is there any other?
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready


  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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