a better tiki 21

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by guzzis3, May 7, 2019.

  1. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    rob denney Senior Member


    You were one of the the first people to point out the BS from the anti harry people, for which I am grateful. I'm sorry I disappoint you, but I have neither time nor money to complete every idea/inspiration to the level you require. If you are interested, I am more than happy to help you prove any particular point to your own satisfaction. I have 5 harryproas in various states of completion, all built to prove something. If you, or anyone else, want to take any of them, make them look nice and spend some money getting them past 'half arsed' and 'going somewhere', you are welcome.
    The main reason for Bucket List BUCKET LIST – HARRYPROA http://harryproa.com/?p=1751 was to see how much interest there was in racing and funding a low cost charter race boat, 4 of which could be moved in a container to regattas around the world. Interest in chartering was low. Interest in funding was non existent.
    As a proa Bucket List was just a version of the many harryproas that do work so I did not need to sail it to 'prove' anything. As a demo/development of Intelligent Infusion, painting and sailing it would not have proven anything. As a test bed for a telescoping rig, foils and triscarph configuration, it taught us a lot, which will be used on future boats.

    The slots are one of several means of attaching bulkheads on an Intelligently Infused boat. To understand them, you need to understand the layup of the hull.

    Harryproas may have been 'done to death" on the forums for those of us who have been here for a long time, but every time someone posts about them, I get more enquiries and web page hits, so I will continue to reply to questions about them.

    Better and more enlightening than cynically dismissing something you concede you don't know much about, maybe start a discussion about where you think wet laminating would be required and I will point out how we avoid it?

    There are no videos of the process as it is continuously evolving. For example, I am going to PNG next week to set up a shop building mini cargo ferries, which are Bucket List hulls, masts and beams with different dimensions. The build method for these is far advanced from how we built BL. And also requires no wet laminating.
     
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  2. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    What is 1708 biax ?

    If I were building that I'd put 600gsm 45/45 outside and 400 gsm 45/45 inside over 9 or 10 mm 80 kg/cubic m pvc foam. That'd be heaps heavy enough for a boat that size.

    Don't get me started on models. I watch fea and mechanical modeling develop over the decades. I have seen a few models that were spot on but geez I've seen some garbage.

    Bulkheads don't endure much racking, I guess I'd do an experiment, or just build the boat and see if it breaks...
     
  3. oldmulti
    Joined: May 2019
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    oldmulti Senior Member

    Guzzis3 1708 is a kyntex cloth that has a 17 oz biax cloth attached to a 3/4 oz csm layer. It was a USA invention (still available) and was advanced for the 80/90's. It allowed a single shot layup instead of a 2 part layup. And I agreed with you suggested fiberglass layup.
     
  4. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Thank you for that. I always struggle converting oz to gsm because I can never remember if you use a sq foot or sq yard.... :)
     
  5. oldmulti
    Joined: May 2019
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    oldmulti Senior Member

    guzzis3 the 1708 equivalent is a 600 gsm biax (45 degree glass strands in both directions) with a 225 gsm chopped strand mat attached. 1 oz CSM = 300 grams, 10 oz cloth, woven rovings = 340 grams/square meter.
     
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  6. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    My understanding is biax is 0/90 like woven, 45/45 is double bias.
     
  7. oldmulti
    Joined: May 2019
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    Location: australia

    oldmulti Senior Member

    redreuben. You are right. My mistake in terminology for Australia. In USA according to the advertising material for 1708 "Biaxial fabric consists of two layers stitched together, with their fiber strands lying at +/- 45 degrees to the edges (instead of along the roll and across at 90 degrees, as with plain weave fiberglass fabrics). “1708” indicates the weight of each layer. ...biaxial weave fiberglass cloth is sold by the yard; 17 oz."
     
  8. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    And THAT is precisely why I always write 45/45 or 0/90. I don't know if it's a national thing or just random but I have seen it listed both ways on various shop sites and other places.
     
  9. piratedynamite
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    Location: Puget Sound

    piratedynamite Junior Member

    Any idea what happened to Ray Aldridge and his Slider plans? I tried to pick them up from Duckworks but they are saying they aren't available anymore? It's a shame because it really did seem like a 'better tiki 21'.
     
  10. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    No idea.

    Wait, you joined the forum in Jun 2012 and this is your first post... weird.
     
  11. piratedynamite
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    Location: Puget Sound

    piratedynamite Junior Member

    I've been thinking about building a boat for a loooooooong time, haha. Just turns out I'm finally ready to bite the bullet and buy some plans but the cost of the Tiki 21 plans seem a bit ridiculously high for me. I wouldn't buy a Coach purse because of the brand name and I feel like about 1/2 the Tiki 21 plan costs are the brand name Wharram. I do find the Wharram boats to be very pretty, though.
     
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  12. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    Lol, cool, welcome to the forum, finally.

    <removed>
     
  13. piratedynamite
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    piratedynamite Junior Member

    Well I've gone ahead and impulse bought the Selway Fisher Hawk 18' plans when I found out about the Slider plans being gone. I'll have to wait for them to come but from build pictures it seem like if I just extend the aft by a foot or two and close the transom up it'll be very similar to the Tiki 21 without the cabin tops, but I can figure out some cabin tops (as I was going to do for the Slider anyways).
     
  14. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    I had never noticed that design before. Looks ok, which is saying something since so many manage to draw terrible designs :D

    I assume acorn and mr toad don't appeal. They do lack style a bit and that thing has the rakish lines. Pity SF don't do a slightly bigger cabined version...

    Mm leeboards :D

    Hawke is a much nicer looking thing than the cat 19... and supposedly only 14 sheets of ply! If you scaled everything up about 20% and put cabins on it....
     

  15. piratedynamite
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    Location: Puget Sound

    piratedynamite Junior Member

    Haha. I admit my main complaint about something like Acorn or the Chat 18 are I find them just plain ugly and their weights seem to balloon pretty quickly and this will be my first build of anything not kayak sized. I'd like to try to keep it as simple and small as possible. The Slider Cat really kind of shocked me with how much I enjoyed the aesthetic and the plethora of posts Ray Aldridge made here about it were enough for me to pull the trigger (albeit 7ish years too late) on $80 dollar plans. I'll have to see what cabin info is included with the Hawk plans (there is a dashed line included on a profile picture but who knows if they drew it up or are just implying you could do it if you want).
     
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