A beautiful curve?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mcollins07, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 116, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    Both boats have cockpit coamings that taper toward the stern and reduce visual height of aft freeboard. Low coachroofs look good also.
     
  2. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member

    yeah, must born in Italy

    :cool:
     
  3. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 5,373
    Likes: 247, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 3380
    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Good one Tom. :)

    Plus, they wouldn't look so sleek with lifelines. Example:

    Classic sailboat w lifelines.jpg

    It is a particular which quite often makes difference between designer's rendering (always so cool looking) and the real boat (often so ordinary looking). ;)
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 476, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There's a whole range of aesthetic considerations one employs to get a good look. For example the roof centerline will typically point toward the stemhead and not be a line that carries out past the boat, if it was continued visually. It will also have a complimentary sheer sweep, in keeping with the actual sheer, taper in the rails, bulwarks, caps, combings, etc. are all part of these considerations, if you want to get the look right. Even the cove or boot stripe will be treated, to offset proportional and visual illusions. It's just as easy to build an ugly boat as a pretty one, so pick your poison wisely.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 476, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There's a whole range of aesthetic considerations one employs to get a good look. For example the roof centerline will typically point toward the stemhead and not be a line that carries out past the boat, if it was continued visually. It will also have a complimentary sheer sweep, in keeping with the actual sheer, taper in the rails, bulwarks, caps, combings, etc. are all part of these considerations, if you want to get the look right. Even the cove or boot stripe will be treated, to offset proportional and visual illusions. It's just as easy to build an ugly boat as a pretty one, so pick your poison wisely. For example the boat pictured directly above I have several aesthetic issues with. I find the roof crown excessive, though I understand why it was done (headroom). I think it needs more sheer in the cabin side/roof interface, possibly an "eyebrow" to offer some definition and depth. I think the cove should have less sweep in the forward portions, though it may just be the photo's angle. I also think they could have put a few more degrees in the transom or possibly added 5" to her length and made a counter instead, both of which would have helped her looks. I like her combing and low cabin sides, but I think they spent too much on the roof crown to get the low sides. Much would have helped this if they'd given 2" inches to the cabins ides and decreased the crown a similar amount. The installation of a hand rail a few inches up from the roof's edge, would also help this issue too. I don't like the broken toerail treatment and I think this could have been handled differently too.
     
  6. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 5,373
    Likes: 247, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 3380
    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    PAR,
    this is a good example of how aesthetics is mostly a personal affair. I respectfully disagree with nearly all of your objections. I find the styling of that boat really well-done and various details consistent with each other and with the overall styling of the boat. :)

    You say that you would prefer to see the above boat with following aesthetic modifications:
    1) smaller roof crown and 2 more inches to the cabin sides, for the same overall cabin height
    2) more sheer in the cabin side/roof interface, with an eyebrow
    3) a few more degrees in the transom or possibly additional 5" to her length, with a counter
    4) eliminate broken toerail rail treatment.

    In my opinion (and to my eyes):
    1) a higher cabin walls and less crown would have given the boat a tadpole, stocky look. The purpose of low side walls, together with the high-contrast coloring of sides (dark) and roof (white), is to prevent the excessively top-heavy looks, which is what makes the visual design of small cabin boats so difficult. If the colors were inverted, they wouldn't look so good. The white of the roof takes away a lots of "visual weight" of the coachroof.
    2) an eyebrow could be introduced, but a very small and visually non-invasive one. A mere embossing of the line joining the roof to the cabin sides.
    3) I 100% disagree with this point. :) The transom angle in this case is closely related to the stem rake, and gives it (again) a look consistent with the overall styling philosophy of the boat. Which is, imo - clean surfaces and and simple lines.
    4) The toerail is broken for a very simple reason - to accomodate stanchions. If it weren't broken, the stanchions would have to be placed more inwards, thus stealing the already small space on the deck.

    I don't know if you have seen the rest of the photos in the page dedicated to that boat: http://www.berckemeyer-yacht.de/yachts/New Yachts/BM23_classic.html

    Check this one, for example:

    [​IMG]

    I think it can really make you appreciate the look of the boat, as seen from a natural viewing angle of a person standing dockside. To me, it is a very sexy-looking boat. :)

    Cheers!
     
  7. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member

  8. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member

  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 476, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Slavi, you and I agree on most things and you've clearly proven how personalized this aesthetic consideration thing really is. Yes, a small, architectural detail for an eyebrow, just to define the line a bit. I understand the stanchion issue, though would have preferred they stand up against or incorporate into the rail. From this angle (directly above) the roof crown doesn't seem as excessive. And lastly, just to prove how personalized these things are, I don't like "sympathetic" transom/stem rakes, perferring to have one "stand" over the other. For example, if the stem has a healthy rake, the transom would be understated or the reverse (such as this case) with a nearly plumb stem, more drama in the transom rake.

    Yeah, it's all about what one thinks as desirable, marketable, good looking, etc. I'm probably a little too old school for most folks tastes. Also, client dictates have a lot to do with custom one offs, that can't be understated. I've done more than one boat with aesthetics that I didn't personally prefer, but a client insisted, so . . .
     
  10. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,165
    Likes: 37, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 155
    Location: North Texas

    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Being old school isn't bad at all. I love those old plumb or nearly so bowed raised deck cruisers.

    But one end can be a little too understated in relation to the other end. The mega yacht A comes to mind. The first pictures I saw of her tended to be from the bow. When I finally saw her transom (posted on DeviantArt) I was disappointed and commented: "Sadly, this is the end." ;)
     

  11. Eric Sponberg
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,004
    Likes: 209, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2917
    Location: On board Corroboree

    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Which is as I stated earlier--"The best aesthetic designs have that certain "je ne sais quoi" that simply cannot be defined, restricted, or labelled in any way. Beauty is all in the eye of the beholder."

    But here I want to echo what PAR said about client influence--it reins supreme. We work to the aesthetic dictates of the client, not necessarily our own innate whims. We can influence and cajole the client one way or another, but the client pays the bills and so we have to do his or her bidding within reasonable safe standards. As designers, it is very rare that we dream up these boat designs totally on our own, pitch them to the public, and find the money and means to build them. Rather, it is the good service that we have done for past clients that leads to new clients commissioning new designs. As a result, the aesthetic spread of our designs generally expands to a very broad and varied spectrum.

    Eric
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.