89' Tri questions

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Rummy, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. Rummy
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Montana

    Rummy Junior Member

    I've been lurking around for some time and finally decided to sign up. Hi all. So, my friends and family are pooling to buy a cat or tri and this 89' Trimaran that is advertised in all the sales lists keeps coming up in our conversations. We're not ready to work with a broker just yet and we feel like we need more unbiased input. None of us has enough experience to venture out on our own so we'll higher a captain for a while. So please excuse the elementary questions.
    1. We're not real crazy about the furling mast and are considering replacing it. We were wondering about cost and weight savings and performance gain. We'll probably just get a new main sail as well. Nothing too high tech, although battens would be a requirement.
    2. It's hard to judge with the tuna tower and shape of the boat in general but it seems like the boom should be longer. Or is it just me?
    3. The boats in Singapore. Any idea what the haulout would be for a survey?
    4. The boat is heavy and no daggerboards so I'm just wondering if it will perform as good as one of the condomarans with all things being equal. Would it point as good or better than a keel cat?
    Thank you all Rummy
     
  2. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    A link to the listing will help folks give you some feedback...

    I searched a bit and found one listing.....that is a lot of boat!

    Changing the rig....don't buy the boat at market price to start tearing things up and replacing. Buy at way below market and then replace things. Don't replace anything this costly because "we're not real crazy about the furling mast". This is not a performance cruiser...not even close...it's a motorsailer with sail area to suit.

    Sail area looks short....but without drawings it's all guessing.

    You're not hauling this vessel with a typical travellift, commercial yard with a syncro lift or carriage, not cheap!

    If there are no appendages the boat was not intended to sail to weather and will not except with an engine running. This is not a real sailing vessel.

    I would highly recommend contacting the designer and builders....find out what they think of the thing...I think Derek Kelsall is mentioned
     
  3. Rummy
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Rummy Junior Member

    Sorry about the link here it is. www.multihullcompany.com/Listings/Trimarans/1
    I agree with the low price part. After browsing through a furling mast thread in this forum we all came to the same conclusion as most of the posters. They are heavy, prone to problems, and inhibit performance. None of my partners had ever used one so we just didn't know. I know we'd have to get an engineer involved but we were wondering if we could get a slightly bigger mast and sail which would offset the weight savings by losing the furling mast. How much more do these things weigh anyway? Is there a multiplier? Twice as much? More?
    I did the displacement/lwl and came out with about a 107. A lot of the cruiser cats were higher. If we decided to do this we would at least be able to keep up with these. I know it's a little esoteric but not impossible so any feedback will be appreciated.
     
  4. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    Rummy,

    Whether the current mast is heavy or not is unknown until someone looks at the specific section and it's weight, vs an ideal section in aluminum or carbon. Average furling sections are roughly 17% heavier than the equalization standard section aluminum tube....but that is a ballpark. Standard spar sections means there are steps, sometimes the weight difference is significant by going to a larger section with thinner walls.

    So if your current mast weighs 2000 pounds, a new standard section might weigh about 340 pounds less. Yes that is a difference, but in this boat you will not notice it. The current spar was built by Reckmann, contact them to find out what section it is and what it weighs, and what they would substitute.

    I would not take seriously any numbers quoted by brokers, especially displacement. Keeping up with other vessels of comparable Displacement/length assumes equal horsepower......this boat does not have much of that. Using the figures offered, SA/D seems to be in the area of 17.4, with a Bruce Number of approximately 1.04, which is quite low.

    This seems like a much better boat...faster, better looking, better designed, better built.....
    http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2164587&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=77213&url=
     

  5. Rummy
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Montana

    Rummy Junior Member

    Tad, Thanks for the response. Your discussion about the mast types was very helpful. What I was trying to achieve was a boat that could keep up with a group of "charter barges" like the big Lagoons under any point of sail. I'm sure boats like Catanas would literally sail circles around the tri and I'm not trying to stay with them. I just don't want to be the slowest boat in the fleet. The mast extension was a pipe dream but installing a similar height mast with a better performing full roach main is a viable prospect. Do you know the percentage increase in sail area we'd get by adding a full roach sail over what we have? Also do we have to ditch the whole mast if we go with a full batten sail? Basically I'm thinking abandoning the furling part and using the mast more traditionally. Or is this whole idea a bunch of bullfiddle and the boat will always be a motor-sailer with the emphasis on the motor part.
    I had looked at that JFA/CDK boat before and it has everything including powered pivoting daggerboards. But, it is about 1.5 mill USD more than the tri. I was visualizing coming quite a bit lower than asking price on the tri to counterbalance the money we'd have to put into it. But if I can swim faster than the tri will ever be able to sail then to hell with it. I like the boat mostly but there are those odd parts like the tuna tower. And who puts a sauna and a deep fryer on a sailboat anyway?
     
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