80 foot cargo harryproa

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by lucdekeyser, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    The build shed site was shut over Xmas, so I spent some time on cargo proa paper work. Among it was how the project fits in with the 17 UN Goals for Sustainability. The goals are a bit wishy washy, but their intention is both sound and valid imho. More importantly, the people the cargo proa has to impress to be successful consider them essential.

    1) No poverty:
    i) Once proven, a yard will be set up to build more of them, with changes learnt on the test route. This yard will be on land already set aside on the outskirts of Suva. It will provide jobs for the locals building cargo proas, cargo/ferries, mini cargo proas and low cost fishing canoes, none of which will require fossil fuels. Importantly, there will be a program dedicated to building, sailing and navigating traditional boats, with all the cultural benefits this supplies.
    ii) A reliable service to remote villages will allow villagers to get products to market, access education, health and other big city facilities. It will supply fresh food, rather than food that needs to survive for 3 months or so. It will slow the exodus from the villages to the city, where there are limited opportunities.

    2) Zero Hunger:
    Reliable fresh food deliveries, the means to fish without spending money on petrol and outboard maintenance and low cost, reliable access to markets for fresh product will alleviate hunger.

    3) Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages:
    see 1 and 2.

    4) Quality Education:
    i) Access to city based schools and the ability to move teachers and materials to small local schools will allow village kids to learn.
    ii) The skills teaching at the boat yard will cover building, maintenance, administration and sailing.

    5) Gender Equality:
    i) All the jobs created are for either men or women.
    ii) The fishing canoe project in particular is aimed at empowering women. They can build the boat, launch it singlehanded and paddle it to the reef to fish. A co op approach allows surplus catch to be sold at the market without each of the fishers needing to buy a spot or spend half the day selling her product.

    6) Clean water and Sanitation:
    Not applicable

    7) Access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy
    Sail power is not 'modern', but using it on a cargo proa is. Affordable and reliable were 2 of the key design objectives. The former has been achieved, the latter will be proven during the test period.

    8) Promote inclusive and sustainable economic growth, employment and decent work for all:

    See 1-5 and 7

    9) Build resilient infrastructure, promote sustainable industrialization and foster innovation:

    i) The build yard will be solar powered, cyclone proof and as clean as possible. The building of the prototype used 2 litres of acetone, 6 litres of vinegar, several litres of water and no other solvents. Dust was minimal as there is little or no grinding or fairing required. Plastic waste was significant (in volume, not in weight) from the infusion process.
    One of the test routes involves collecting rubbish from village dumps. Plastic will be recycled, metal sorted and sold and biodegradable waste turned into fertiliser. The build waste will be incorporated in this. Down the track, the plan is to set up plastic shred, melt, extrude/press facilities at village level.
    ii) Due to the collegial approach to designing and building it the cargo proa is one of the most innovative solutions to remote village transportation. The different perspectives of users and sailors will result in further improvements.

    10) Reduce inequality within and among countries:
    i) Enabling villages to thrive will encourage the best and brightest to stay and build a better community.
    ii) Building the boats in the countries they will be used in adds industry, cash flow and jobs.
    iii) Reducing the amount of imported fuel provides money for development.

    11) Make cities inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable:
    This is a secondary benefit of giving remote villagers a purpose and a decent standard of living, slowing the urban rush from remote villages of unskilled, unhappy, unemployable people.

    12) Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns:

    i) Removing fossil fuels from sea transport.
    ii) Using situation suitable vessels rather than large, often derelict ships which are too big to enter lagoons and/or outboard powered skiffs which are unsuitable on open water.
    iii) Sustainable boat building materials are being developed at a great rate, but the biggest gain is using less. A 24m cargo boat weighing 4 tonnes is significantly less material than any similar capacity boat.

    13) Combat climate change and its impacts:
    i) There are many ways to dissect the cost/impact/usage of the boats, but 9 cargo ferrys might each average 6 tonnes per voyage, sail 80 miles a day and be in service 360 days a year. 1.5 million tonne miles per year.
    Capital cost: $2,000,000.
    Fuel used and emissions: zero.
    One of the ships servicing the Marshall islands (Kwajalein) makes 7 trips per year, 13,500 miles carrying 110 tonnes of cargo per trip: 1.5 million tonne miles.
    Capital cost: $5,000,000.
    Diesel used: 157,000 kgs, CO2 emissions: 392,000 kgs.
    ii) built locally to reduce transport costs.
    iii) shipwreck is much less likely (shallow draft, unsinkable), results in no environmental damage and reduces the fleet by 11% rather than totally.
    iii) The boats will be an indication that the countries most concerned with the effects of climate change are doing their best to limit it. This will not have a direct impact on climate change, it is hoped it will encourage the big emitters to cut back and consumers to pay more attention to the source of their purchases.

    14) Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources
    i) Village scale fisheries can exclude factory scale vessels, resulting in a balanced, sustainable resource.
    ii) Eliminating diesel and petrol exhaust and spillage keeps the air and sea clean.

    15) Sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, halt and reverse land degradation, halt biodiversity loss:

    16) Promote just, peaceful and inclusive societies
    see above

    17) Revitalize the global partnership for sustainable development:

    The cargo proa project is interacting with local and national Governments (Fiji, Australia, Germany, RMI), donors, shipping companies, NGO's, traditional sailing organizations, universities, venture capitalists, businesses, volunteer organisations, development agencies (World Bank, UN, etc) and enthusiasts/volunteers. This network will grow as the project proceeds.
    DogCavalry, Flotation and bajansailor like this.
  2. Flotation
    Joined: Jan 2020
    Posts: 172
    Likes: 32, Points: 28
    Location: Canada

    Flotation Senior Member

    Happy new year, thanks for the update,

    Can't wait to see your machines hauling cargo across the Pacific.
  3. Robert Biegler
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 89
    Likes: 36, Points: 18
    Location: Trondheim

    Robert Biegler Junior Member

    The goals don't include any concern what happens to the remains of a boat at the end of its life, which is a problem with composite boats. Arkema is now offering a thermoplastic resin that they claim is recyclable (Elium® resins for composites https://www.arkema.com/global/en/products/product-finder/product-range/incubator/elium_resins/). I have seen basalt fibre described as harmless on the grounds that if it breaks down, it produces rock dust (true only if either it is not part of a composite structure, or the resin has been removed already). Would it be worth looking into either or both these materials as alternatives to glass and epoxy?
    Flotation likes this.
  4. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    1) Materials.
    It is well worth looking at new materials. Problem so far is that they are more expensive and many of the claims are dubious. eg Arkema is doing some great stuff, but the infrastructure and energy required to recycle their resin is significant. I'd like to set up a testing regime for new materials in the production shop and establish a sustainability register via the Universities of the South Pacific and Queensland.

    My understanding (could be wrong, I would appreciate a more knowledgeable analysis):
    Epoxy breaks down in the sun. I am not sure to what.
    Fibreglass is thin strands of glass, which is mostly molten sand. Apart from the energy required to melt and transport it, it is pretty benign.
    Carbon uses a lot more energy, but depending on the base material, is similar. I think.
    Basalt has properties between the 2, requires less heat to melt than glass (I think), so is probably a greener material, although I am told there are better and worse forms of it, which may alter the equation. It is about 4 times more expensive than glass, so was not used in the cargo proa.
    Both the resin and fibres are heavier than water, so they sink and end up in the sludge on the ocean floor. Not sure how much damage this causes, but it is probably better than floating and entering the food chain. Obviously foam cores change this, which, along with cost is why we chose not to use them on this project.

    2) End of life. This is a discussion we had before building ply boats in the Marshalls.
    A fibreglass/carbon/epoxy boat that is painted will effectively last forever. Therefore, disposal is not an issue until someone invents a better means of transport.
    A plywood boat will rot, releasing the toxic glue holding the veneers together, the epoxy bonding it and the paint into the environment. Then it will have to be rebuilt, at considerable environmental, time and dollar cost.
    Despite this, the mini cargo proas were built from ply because at the time I was fixated on infusion. The plastic waste from this is unacceptable in a place where the 2nd highest structure in the nation is the garbage tip, which gets partially washed away in storms (the highest is the dome sealing the nuclear waste on Runit). Because of this, we started experimenting with non infusion, starting with a single person canoe which could be built in a day, with near zero waste. Future mini cargo proas will be build in this way.
    The Marshalls project was to teach the locals to build a proa, a cat and to repair a 20 year old 9m/30' csm/polyester cat which had been sitting on the beach for a couple of years due to it's wooden deck and beams rotting. This was a repeat of what had happened a couple of times during it's life. When we removed the deck, and looked at the bulkheads all that remained of the ply was the glue holding the veneers together and some mush at the bottom. We ground/adzed (remarkably quick and clean in the hands of an expert, not so much in mine) off the remaining interior leaving clean, undamaged fibreglass.

    CSM is heavy, uses a lot of resin and needs a mould. This was part of what led to non cored panels on the cargo proa.

    Thanks. Me too.
    Flotation likes this.
  5. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    After seemingly endless shipping postponements and torrential rain delays, the prototype cargo proa has finally been packed into shipping containers and is on its way to Fiji. Due to potential access difficulties, I moved the components from the shed to the road nearer to the gate. Without a towbar on the car, it was a bit challenging, especially on the small hill where the load tried to go through the front seat. Once the right balance was achieved, it all went pretty smoothly. Pics at Cargo Ferry Prototype – Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=3788
    Although spread over five days which included a weekend, the actual container loading job went smoothly and was completed in two days. A tractor mounted forklift was used to help lift and move the heavier components which were guided into place by hand.
    The trucks made dropping off/picking up the containers and turning around on the wet grass look easy, but one of the drop off guys apparently refused to do the pick up, so maybe it wasn't as easy as it looked. The containers weigh 3,830 kgs/3.9 tons each. The heaviest one contained the lee hull, toybox, rudders, beams, masts, tools, 'glass, carbon, and 'might come in handies'. It weighed 5.7 tonnes/tons. The other weighed 5.2. Total load 3.04 tonnes/tons so maybe the boat ready to sail will weigh less than 4 tonnes. A bit scary, but plenty of scope for beefing up if necessary.

    The ship leaves tomorrow, afaik the containers are on board. I have sold/given away/taken
    to the dump my car, house, 4 boats, a double garage and shed full of stuff which may come in handy sometime, 20 years of experiments and some fun memories. The ship and I arrive in Suva on the 1st May. Not 100% sure yet where the assembly will happen or where I will be living, which is also a bit scary, but if the preferred option works out, it will be as good a set up as we had with UQ, which was pretty close to perfect.
    The final days at UQ were quite laid back and a little bit sad as the last page of an important chapter in the proa ferry story was turned.

    "How long it will take?" is an oft asked question, which I can't answer as there are too many variables. 1-6 months to sailing successfully, plus 1 -3 months to get it ready to move cargo is about as close as I can get at the moment. Offers to help with the assembly and testing are coming in which should make it quicker and easier.

    For more information see Cargo Ferry – Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=2561 Mechanical help.JPG Organizing chaos.JPG Ready to load.JPG Room to spare.JPG That's about it.JPG The ghosts return.JPG Toy box packed.JPG IMG_1801.JPG IMG_1807.JPG
    All in.JPG Job done.JPG
    oldmulti, Flotation and bajansailor like this.
  6. Flotation
    Joined: Jan 2020
    Posts: 172
    Likes: 32, Points: 28
    Location: Canada

    Flotation Senior Member

    These must be exiting times for you.
    Thanks for the update and best wishes!
  7. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    They are. Thanks.
    Flotation and DogCavalry like this.
  8. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 2,511
    Likes: 1,256, Points: 113
    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Soy Soylent Green: I can't believe it's not people

  9. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 157
    Likes: 13, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 51
    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    If the pictures show the last situation when the container doors were closed then this will prove to be a serious shakedown trip ;-)
  10. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    I arrived in Fiji 2 weeks ago and moved into a bure and office at the College of Appropriate Tech and Development (CATD) at Bau Landing, about 25 kms NE of Suva.. The staff and students are lovely and very keen to help. They offered me use of their carpentry, plumbing and metal workshops and want input on how to include boatbuilding in the curriculum. We may build a mini cargo proa (foam, not ply) on weekends and evenings. They're also keen on swapping petrol outboard motor motors for electric.

    Had dinner with the SSTI guys. They are enthusiastic and are making stuff happen. Several high up Govt people are interested and a World Bank report on how the Govt should instigate their sustainable agriculture agenda stated: "Key informants flagged domestic inter-island shipping as an area in need of development." and "There should be a push to work with the Sustainable Sea Transport Initiative, which is building a prototype of a sustainable inter-island vessel to provide services to more remote locations."

    The first day here, I had a visit from the chief whose family owns a large chunk of Fiji, including the CATD site and several islands, one of which is Leleuvia which has a green resort on it. He is very keen on the cargo proa, asked me to spend the weekend at the resort and give a talk to 50 students from the International School who are there for a week.
    Lelauvia is lovely. Had a fun talk with the kids, one of whom told me (nicely), I was wrong to advocate hydro power because of concrete dams, wiped out species etc. We decided small scale would be viable.
    The barman collared me to tell me the cargo proa was just what was required for his village, when could we start?
    I went for a sail/paddle, not much wind in a plywood outrigger, 70 of which were built for an Amazon TV show. The guys who look after it are finishing their Env Eng degrees, offered to work on the Cargo proa over their holidays.

    The most common comment from pre teen students, hotel staff and taxi drivers all the way to high up in the public service and Government is that everyone is talking about green shipping, but only the cargo proa is doing anything. Gratifying for me, not so much for the planet.

    TAUTOKU!!! Fijian for marvellous. The first container arrived, an hour later it's unloaded and the contents in the shed, 100m down a dirt track. Amusing comparing my efforts with the car, trailer and tractor with 30 enthusiastic strong Fijians. Pick up the component, put it on their shoulders and take off down the track. Video CATD, Nadave https://www.facebook.com/www.catdnadave.ac.fj The long hull is being joined in a shed over an old slipway. Should be able to get the masts up and beams on to be sure everything fits, then remove them, launch it and reinsert them, then add the ww hull and the bits between the beams. Not quite a travel lift on a concrete ramp, but probably easier than the Pinjarra Creek scenario. Plus there are 80 students available for lifting and carrying. I am modifying the beam/mast attachment to enable the beams to be installed after the masts are up. There is a sunk sand barge on the slip. Removing it would make launching easier, but I am still trying to figure out how.

    Yesterday was my birthday. I walked into the food hall for breakfast and 80 students and several staff sang happy birthday Rob, with far more enthusiasm than it has ever been sung before. The students are trades apprentices, but they sing wonderfully. First thing in the mornings and pre dinner, they perform. It's a great way to be woken in the morning.

    The students and I have cleaned the small shed and got my stuff stowed. The middle section of the lee hull is on the slip, one end is ready to join, once I get some epoxy.

    CATD owns a couple of 6m/20' pangas/banana boats/fibres which the students and I are going to repair and use for fishing. Solid csm glass, about 400 kgs weight, these things are everywhere and are a brilliant bit of 'situation suitable' design. Unfortunately, they require 40 hp outboards to get them planing and the fuel cost is prohibitive. Electrifying them, including installing solar power, is on the wish list.

    Just had a visit from a World Bank funded reef clean up project about shipping waste plastic (a big problem) from villages to the recycling place in Suva. They looked at the boat bits scattered around the place and wanted to know how many cargo proas we could supply and when! The COO is a Swede with a lot of ocean sailing miles. Reckons the cargo proa is the 'most functional sailboat' he has seen. At the end of the meeting they asked how long I would be here. I answered that it is a beautiful place, the people are exceptionally friendly, I get better care than in a hotel, up to 80 enthusiastic assistants at my beck and call and I spend all day playing with boat ideas. I won't be leaving anytime soon.

    Attached Files:

  11. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,948
    Likes: 199, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Sounds like you have discovered community, a concept our modern society has forgotten.
    If you run into any economists, take them shark fishing.
    Flotation, oldmulti and bajansailor like this.
  12. Flotation
    Joined: Jan 2020
    Posts: 172
    Likes: 32, Points: 28
    Location: Canada

    Flotation Senior Member

    Thank you for keeping us updated. You seem to have landed at the right spot, i really hope local interest in you project continues and more people discover the benefits this kind of transport offers.
  13. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 433
    Likes: 55, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    What is your anticipated build cost for the 80ft cargo proa, how much cargo will it carry
  14. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    It has cost me $AUS40,000/$US28,000 in composite materials for the 9m/30' tender, hulls, beams, masts, rudders, wings and some of the deck gear. After that, it gets murky.
    It took me and another pensioner 13 months of unpaid 40 hour weeks to build. I got the build shed at University of Queensland and the assembly shed at CATD for free. The non composite deck gear (a winch, a few blocks, ropes) I had lying around the garage. Fitting it out for work will cost a fair bit for safety gear, not sure how much yet.
    Cargo capacity in sheltered waters will be ~10 tonnes; open sea, maybe half that. Determining these and whether several other novel features work is the reason for the prototype.

  15. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 855
    Likes: 244, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    Finally got 5 kgs of epoxy. The hardener was faster than the stuff we used in the Marshalls and just as much a challenge, especially working inside the 800mm/32" x 800mm/32" hull. I managed to get the first bottom joined and the mast step stringers in using 200g /7 oz mixes, but it was a near thing. I used bundles of tow instead of fillets on the stringers to increase the join strength. Worked well.

    The 2nd end was more challenging as it was twisted (my fault, shouldn't install bulkheads on a gravel slope). A couple of judicious cuts and it all went together, but there was some unpleasant grinding to do inside once the hull was on it's side.

    I glassed the outside of the joins from waterline to waterline over the deck and wrapped the top mast rings in tow. Looks OK and seems strong.

    I spent the first couple of weeks here trying to figure out how to insert the masts. I finally looked up and saw the great big tree next to the slip. A student slung a line over a branch, I rigged a block and tackle and after a few adjustments ("one two three, slide" and 20 students move the hull ) the 1st mast was in. The second one won't be so easy, we may need to tip the boat on it's side, which is tricky as it will need to be in the water to get the mast step under the tree.. I was discussing this with the head gardner (CATD is almost self sufficient, the students do the gardening under supervision) who came up with a typically out of the box soultion. Pics next update.

    I bit the bullet on the beams that Rassy and I had spent so much time and effort building and trimmed off the loop on the end and replaced it with multiple dyneema wraps. Means the mast can be raised and the beams installed afterwards, which makes everything (including the build of the next one), much easier.

    After a hot day's work one of the students asks if I want a coconut drink. Sure, I say. He shinnys up the tree in no time flat and tosses down half a dozen nuts. One of the others holds a nut in his hand and hits it with 6 machete blows to de husk it and open the top. OHS's worst nightmare, but these guys do it all the time. The juice is lovely, as refreshing as a cold beer.

    Apart from spending time mixing teaspoons of epoxy, why isn't work proceeding faster?

    It rained for the first 2 weeks. The shed is fine unless a strong breeze blows rain from the east, which it did. The boat is designed to be built with limited infrastructure, so this and intermittent electricity (4 all day power cuts in the last 2 weeks) are good learning experiences.
    It's also hot. A good morning's work followed by a siesta then back to work until dark is pleasant, but not very productive.

    We have plenty of important visitors, wannabe partners and potential funders who get guided tours. There is a fair bit of other stuff on the agenda around MOU's, grants, teaching and the future which all needs to be discussed. Fortunately, we are an hours drive from Suva, so only the keen visit, but there are still a lot of them.

    The Fijian PM was going to visit CATD to open a conference and had asked for a briefing on and a look at the boat. Unfortunately, the Chinese foreign minister was visiting on the same day and he carries more clout than us, so the PM has postponed the visit.

    Last weekend we were invited to Leleuvia to fix a busted outrigger. Took 30 minutes, spent the rest of the time relaxing. Met some influential people, all of whom were interested in the project. Half a dozen of them visited the boat on their way home. I'm busting to drop some names, but have been told not to. ;-)

    It looks like we are setting up a joint venture to replace the petrol part of outboard motors with electric. Some impressive Australian technology involved at a reasonable cost. Waterproof to 1m, droppable on concrete from waist high, all plug and play so any busted components can be replaced on the beach, motor and prop properly matched.

    We got a request from the UNDP to attend a meeting to discuss a grant application. Seems they have money available, but no projects that tick the necessary boxes. The cargo proa does. We shall see in August when the money is allocated.

    How serious are the Fijians about cargo proas and green shipping? I took someone down to the slip to see what could be done about cutting up and removing the sand barge. He glanced at it, said, "No problem", turned around and said "What I want to talk about is the production factory." There is ~100m x 75m of flat land (currently a flourishing taro patch and 2 cargo proa sheds) and he wanted to know what a cargo proa building factory, with class rooms to teach modern and traditional sailing, building and navigation, a full width slipway, offices, maritime museum and an innovation and testing space would look like. Fortunately, Steinar is good at this sort of stuff and came up with a preliminary sketch. Everybody is pretty excited. The sand barge is still there, but hopefully not for long.
    The students continue to delight. Drum roll (hollowed out log and 2 sticks, beaten fast) at 5.30am. I get up, make a pot of coffee and watch the sun rise while they sing hymns: a lovely way to start the day. When I lend them my tools (I an pretty sure my little sledge hammer was instrumental in the demise of the pig we had for dinner last night), they are always returned, often in cleaner condition.

    I have built a lot of boats in the garage of various houses I've lived in, often upsetting the neighbours in the process. Here, when I start work, my neighbors turn up to see what is going on and offer to help. Refreshing.

    A couple of days after my birthday, I was asked to visit the carpentry workshop. The guys had built me a tool box, turned it into a great big birthday card. The art and sign writing is all free hand with a texta. The artist is going to go to work on the cargo proa if/when I stop grinding bits off it.
    Next update (mid July) should be a PR ripper.
    Big birthday card 2.jpg Wing leading edge.jpg tool box 2.jpg tool box 3.jpg Tree crane.jpg Coconut palm climbing.jpg twisted join.jpg ready to join.jpg One piece.jpg mnimum boat.jpg mast up.jpg mast step.jpg Lifters.jpg
    Big birthday card 2.jpg Wing leading edge.jpg tool box 2.jpg tool box 3.jpg Tree crane.jpg Coconut palm climbing.jpg twisted join.jpg ready to join.jpg One piece.jpg mnimum boat.jpg mast up.jpg mast step.jpg Lifters.jpg
    oldmulti likes this.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.