80 foot cargo harryproa

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by lucdekeyser, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Gringles
    Joined: Nov 2020
    Posts: 23
    Likes: 1, Points: 3
    Location: Great lakes

    Gringles Junior Member

    Exactly.
    When the designer says the project is a success before it's completed he reveals the project's desired intention is to generate attention among a specific type of potential proa people..

    Like the group that's currently helping the designer build a proof of concept, green cargo proa - a boat which doesn't have to meet any tangible, measurable expectations to be considered a success. It simply has to exist to be considered a success.

    I can see why the designer is interested in finding more customers of this type.
     
  2. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 152
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    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    The SOR is important for any RFP but let us keep things in the right proportions. This built is all in the open: what you see is what you get and you can even discuss the next best steps almost in real time if you choose to. Nothing to hide here. Also no pretention here, only the enthusiasm of a number of people with and a number of people without experience building such boats in the hope they can experiment and and make progress with building techniques. I also presume that nobody will be feel devastated that an order for a dozen of dozens of such boats will not materialize overnight or even ever.

    So, we can concentrate on discussing the building instead.
     
  3. peterbike
    Joined: Dec 2017
    Posts: 44
    Likes: 8, Points: 8
    Location: melbourne

    peterbike Junior Member

    To all those viewing this thread
    I would ask you to ignore/not respond to this troll calling itself "gringles"

    Trolls are like children
    If you ignore them, after a while they will get bored & go away.
     
  4. Russell Brown
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: washington state

    Russell Brown Senior Member

    What about the rest of us that are skeptical?
     
  5. peterbike
    Joined: Dec 2017
    Posts: 44
    Likes: 8, Points: 8
    Location: melbourne

    peterbike Junior Member

    Russell, you are the original troll.
    You taught the other trolls how to do it.
    & you would still be at it, if Rob had not pointed out to you that your trolling was actually helping his business along.
    As they say, "any publicity, is good publicity "
     
  6. Russell Brown
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: washington state

    Russell Brown Senior Member

    You sound very much like Rob Denny.
     
  7. Gringles
    Joined: Nov 2020
    Posts: 23
    Likes: 1, Points: 3
    Location: Great lakes

    Gringles Junior Member

    Does the world change if I change the way I look at the world? Or am I the one that changed?

    Either way, the world isn't quite the same to me.
    And that's considered constructive?
    No wonder so many people are so interested in these designs
     
  8. cracked_ribs
    Joined: Nov 2018
    Posts: 96
    Likes: 78, Points: 18
    Location: Republic of Vancouver Island

    cracked_ribs Junior Member

    Well, as a builder and occasional designer of boats for my own use but with no particular knowledge of proas, I can say that I'm interested. I don't know enough about the subsidies offered to shipping vessels in the islands where this is intended for use to make any kind of comparison to current methods; I don't know enough about the sailing conditions there to have an opinion on the practicality of this vessel. I have never shunted a boat in my life.

    But here's what is happening: this boat appears to be under construction. As far as I can tell, the designer is going to use it to pitch a concept of commercial transport. I don't know how that will work out and to be honest, I don't care if it's commercially viable for that application because I'm not in that line of work.

    I'm just interested in the boat. Does the infusion process work well? Does the boat do what it's supposed to do? How long until it's done?

    I have a kid who has to go to regular school, and I still have to work. I can't make use of an Orbiter 80 right now. But it's an interesting concept and this is probably the best shot at seeing one fleshed out in the short term. I don't really get why this thread can't just be that...an account of an unusual vessel, a prototype, being built.

    I guess I might feel differently if my tax dollars were at stake, but as it is I'm happy to just watch it progress.
     
  9. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 773
    Likes: 136, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    Cracked Ribs,
    Thanks. Please keep the questions, commemts and suggestions coming.
    You can follow progress on Harryproa https://www.facebook.com/Harryproa/?ref=page_internal or Cargo Ferry Prototype – HARRYPROA http://harryproa.com/?p=3788 The infusion works well, although some of the early experimental panels were screw ups, which gave us an opportunity to figure out how to fix them. The repairs are invisible, so presumably sound. I can remove an infused 8.4m/28' x 1.1m/44" panel, clean the table, set up and infuse another panel in less than 2 days. No sticky stuff, no suiting up, no gloves and a perfect laminate which is about 2:1 fibre:resin. A couple of kgs of wasted resin, 8 sqm of infusion material (old shade cloth) and 20 sq m of peel ply. The tacky tape and the spiral are reused and we are melting the vac bag for cargo boxes.

    Will it do what it is supposed to? No idea, which is why I am building it. Based on previous Harrys, it will, but there are a lot of new ideas to be tested, in particular the steering and rigs. Worst case, we revert to tried and tested.

    How long till it is launched?
    No idea, there are too many variables around the volunteer labour force, test results, building new stuff like the truss beams and the pultruded masts and that 24m/80' is a bloody long way to walk to do things. ;-) The aim is mid next year, but it used to be Xmas, so take this with a grain of salt.

    Rumars,
    Thanks for the opportunity to correct your misconceptions.
    Semantics again. Call it what you like. It is a boat I am building to demonstrate zero emission, situation suitable, low cost shipping to remote Pacific villagers.

    It is designed to be built by unskilled workers under supervision in remote places, not "series production".

    It is different to the Harryproa cruisers in enough ways that no one would confuse the 2. If it sells more of them, I will not complain, but that is not it's purpose. It's construction is Research and Development, paid for by me from plan sales.

    I am paying for the materials and doing most of the labour. The Uni's reasons for getting involved, according to the Composite Engineering Head of Dept:
    "It is an exciting project creating lots of opportunities because:
    • It is a project that is closely related to a number of UQ’s core values, viz. to create change, to positively influence society, to shape the future, to develop and inspire the next generation leaders, to advance ideas that benefit the world.
    • Rob Denney has a long history of successful, innovative boat building, and initiating and delivering creative projects.
    • It has the potential to provide extended marketing opportunities for UQ in the areas of sustainability and composite materials.
    • It allows our students to get hands on experience with the materials and techniques they are studying.
    These are the reasons why the UQ Composites research group has agreed to offer space in their Pinjarrah Hills shed to manufacture the vessel."

    The volunteers figure they are better off working constructively for change rather than waving placards outside Shell's offices. They are having a great experience, we have to limit how many can work at one time.
    The demonstration voyages will not be "subsidised" by anyone, except me. The cost to the shipper of shipping the freight on these demonstrations is zero.
    It is a net win for the villagers, who currently have poor to nonexistent service. To me, it is a financial loss, but a huge feel good gain.
    The plan is to demonstrate/cruise the boat for 3 years, then give it to a village. I don't end up owning anything. The reason I can do this is because business for the last several years has been so good.

    Peter,
    Thanks. Happy to give it a go.

    Russ,
    You and your rabid fans have been trolling me for 20+ years. You have apologised for doing so twice, have asked for it to stop when it was obvious more people supported me than disliked me and have made several excuses and apologies for your poor behaviour. But you still turn up every time I post with some negative, unsubstantiated comment.

    Your (and anyone else's) scepticism is welcome, if you say what you are sceptical about, and actually read and absorb my replies, 3 things that have been conspicuously absent from your contributions to the debate over the years.

    Peter does sound a bit like me. I can assure you he isn't, as a quick look at his previous posts will show. If I needed a sock puppet (I don't), she would sound nothing like me.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  10. Gringles
    Joined: Nov 2020
    Posts: 23
    Likes: 1, Points: 3
    Location: Great lakes

    Gringles Junior Member

    I really do enjoy reading the Harry Proa posts. His goals are ambitious, and fun to follow from minimum safe distance.
     
  11. Eric ruttan
    Joined: Jul 2018
    Posts: 190
    Likes: 28, Points: 28
    Location: usa

    Eric ruttan Senior Member

    I would have thought you would have approved of this light and fast build technique. Did you notice it has no gel coat?
     
  12. Gringles
    Joined: Nov 2020
    Posts: 23
    Likes: 1, Points: 3
    Location: Great lakes

    Gringles Junior Member

    Well,
    It's a Pacific proa, so it's a step in the right direction.
     
  13. Tiddles
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 2
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    Location: NZ

    Tiddles New Member

    Thanks for the candid build updates Rob.

    Do you propose solid glass at least below the waterline for the cruising 80 footer (orbiter)? Would make sense I think. If so, what is the weight difference if using solid glass below the waterline on that design?

    Do the flat bottoms really not slam into a sea?
     
  14. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Proa threads, always entertaining often informative.
    Nil desperadum carborundum illegitimi
     

  15. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 773
    Likes: 136, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    My pleasure. They closed the site at noon today, so we only got 2.5 days work done this week. However, ir included one of the lee hull bow sections, which enabled us to see what the bows will look like. see attached. Each of these panels is 1/16th of the lee hull and uses 7.8 kgs of resin, including wetting out the peel ply and medium. Assuming 2:1 fibre:resin, the hull skin will weigh under 200 kgs/440 lbs. Plus 25 bulkheads at 3 kgs each, 2 mast steps, the pins and holes to hold the 3 sections together, some glue and paint and and it is looking pretty light.
    Pics upload crashes my computer so you will have to wait until I post them on Harryproa https://www.facebook.com/Harryproa/?ref=page_internal
    (edit) Some have uploaded. The first 2 are the model beam, designed to break at 150 kgs load.

    The solid glass option works best on narrow hulls. The Orbiter hull bottoms are 30mm foam with 1200 gsm glass each side. Infused weight about 6 kgs per sq m. This is the equivalent of about 4000 gsm glass. Whether this is enough or not depends on the furniture and bulkheads, but for most of the hull , it probably would be.

    Not usually while sailing. The length means bigger waves are required to get it to leave the water. The lee hull is pressed into the water so should not slam, and the windward hull on a cruiser should not get close to flying. There will be exceptions, but the hulls, beams and rigs are plenty strong enough to take the loads if it does slam. In most cases, it is a warning to ease off or change course. Motoring into big seas may cause some slamming, which would be fixable by altering course.

    RR,
    Erudite as always. :)
     

    Attached Files:

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