8' beam trailerable catamaran with outriggers?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Eciton, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Eciton
    Joined: May 2017
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    Eciton Junior Member

    ok. maybe a terrible idea but i like the idea of a trailerable daysailer/overnight cat of about 18-22'. however i dont like the idea of a 20' cat with 8' beam because of stability issues. short of a fancy collapsing setup has anyone done something like the attached picture?

    lightweight flown outriggers that fold in over the cat or are a quick bolt on. kind of like cat training wheels. :)

    alternatively instead of an outrigger, how about something that acts like a ski or foil to keep the boat from going over?
     

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    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  2. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Start over. Those stabilizers would not be strong enough to help in high seas.

    Where do you want to use the vessel and do you want to sail or motor and what are average and worst case seas you want to build for?
     
  3. Eciton
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    Eciton Junior Member

    mostly sail, some motor with a small outboard. chespeake bay would likely be the biggest water, like the idea of traveling down the east coast but I dont know how realistic the plan is in the short term.

    mostly i was just interested to see if the idea had any merit, my brain was drifting off of work today... :)
     
  4. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    The Skoota series are folding and trailerable.

    The 24 could hop the coast. The 20 could, but pretty small.
     
  5. Eciton
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    Eciton Junior Member

    arent skoota's powercats? since seeing the skoota design a couple weeks ago i have really wanted to see if there is a skoota motorsailer.
     
  6. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Sorry, yes. I missed the sailing bit.
     
  7. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Build a Wood's Eagle. Ultra simple, trailerable, coastal hopper sailing cat.
     
  8. Blueknarr
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    We called them lazy backs. Have padding and are set for crew to sit on with feet on tramp, or to be head rests for crew sitting on tramp.

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    Ilan Voyager likes this.
  9. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Look up the Gougeon 32.
    Trailerable, reported to sail well.
    No known safety issues that I have heard about.

    Forget the training wheels. Just put less sail area on it for safety.
    There have also been cats with a weighted centerboard - not what I'd recommend, but it could work.
     
  10. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    I have a Pacific cat 19 ( P cat ) that is 8ft beam and has exceptional stability due to its rather heavy weight and very short rig but a lot of sail area with 50" of roach in the main. It has a solid bridge deck and cockpit wells in the hulls for your legs which makes for a much more comfortable boat and does not need racks. It is one of the earliest production fiberglass beachcats having gone into production in 1959 and is very seaworthy and very fast. Hobie Alter had one before designing the first Hobie cat and I can not think of a better cat for what you propose. No racks needed. We rarely ever have to hike hard. Stability in a cat come from three areas, weight, beam and rig height.

    Steve.
     
  11. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    I did lazy backs on customized Tornados for coastal navigation. Very comfortable, you can sail hours and you can sleep on. A 10 feet wide cat can be trailered on a 8 feet trailer, the cat is just inclined. The con is the drag and some sensibility to lateral wind. However all the Tornado guys trail their cats like that since 50 years and that works.
     
  12. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    I'll give my personal experience. I had with a friend a coastal raid cat (and made several) that could be used for small cruises. Rather spartan for the amenities, but extremely exhilarating and fast. Very seaworthy, we have navigated until force 7 with no fear.
    The program was:
    - fast and fun, even in light weather
    - coastal raids (there was competitions in the time) and coastal cruising. Possibility to spend nights on.
    - beachable, trailerable on a normal 8 feet trailer behind a medium sized car.
    - able to sail in strong seas and strong winds without special fears. So you are able to withstand a local summer storm.
    - easily managed by two. And getting "uprighted" by two un the event of a capsize.
    The result of our transcendental meditations and experience:
    - catamaran 20 feet by 10 based on the Tornado. Why a Tornado? it's a proven and reliable design. The volume of the hulls permits a 190-200 kg weight without transforming it in a stone, so it can be customized. Very fast in the 155 kg racing configuration...so even slower it will be fast enough.
    - no superstructure, no cabins. It had to be built easily and fast by 2 guys who had families and works. And rather in the cheap side.
    - we used a proven and simple system for righting. We tried it; it worked so we were autonomous, no need of assistance.
    - we used a simplified rigging: 9 meters rotating mast with a upper tapper, big square headed mainsail in terylene 2 reefs 20 m2, small solent automatic jib 1 reef on boom and track 5 m2, genaker 12 m2, later increased to 24 m2 for light weather. A lot of sail surface for a 195 kg catamaran with 2 guys but this kind of bats are used mainly in summer and light winds. The reefs allowed to sail safely in strong winds.
    - for comfort and security we used wings as those used on the 18 feet Hobie Cat. The wings had waterproof bags for storage of the light gear and clothes. The bags were also flotation devices.
    - for security halyards all external, sealed mast, and flotation profiled device (made in foam, and spinaker cloth) on the top of square headed main sail.
    - a custom tent in a waterproof bag tied to the front beam in the front side.
    - kitchen, water and storage in the main hulls in special compartments with fast opening hatches.
    - security and navigation material in waterproof bags tied to the front beam in the rear side.
    - hulls with sealed compartments, with high flotability even in the event of big holes on rocks and reefs.
    - the hulls were made in compounded plywood, epoxy, glass and carbon fiber. abrasion protection on the keels. painted with pearly automotive acrylic paint.
    - first quality Ronstan hard ware, all ball bearing. 6 and 12/1 main sheet blocks with ratchets.
    - all kevlar halyards and rigging.
    - complete mooring apparels ( small anchors etc...)
    - no outboard, 2 yulohs (chinese articulated oars) moved by human power. 0 to 4 knots...
    The final result;
    - impossible to flip completely. With a little training rather easy to right up by 2 guys. No assistance needed.
    - very seaworthy, maneuverable, easy to sail (at least for us). We have navigated until force 7 (exhausting but not frightening) in 8-12 feet waves. It was an absolute requirement as we sailed in the Mer d'Iroise, a place with strong seas, high current tides, and sudden summer storms. Plus plenty of reefs and a rocky coast waiting you...
    - very stable, heeling easy to control. As always the most efficient is to keep the upwind hull just above the water.
    - max speed 20 knots and plus
    - more important mean speeds. Around 12 knots generally in the lazy mode. The king of reaching in light winds with no bad thrills.
    - angle windward about 38-40 degrees comfortable. could be pushed to 30 degrees. Speed a good twice the wind.
    - tacking very easy
    - a breeze to trailer. Mounted and dismounted in 20-30 minutes.
    - extremely comfortable at sea, all the control sheets at hand. Light and sensible steering.
    - amenities; spartan but comfortable at mooring. Tent easy to mount.
    - could be used as family boat in light weather and all the due precautions for spending afternoon sailing in front of the beach.
    It must be precised that we were 2 guys in the thirties, naval engineers, boatbuilders with plenty of miles with racing multis mainly 18. 20 and 40 feet. So the boat was oriented for speed, and not for amenities in the harbor. So it's surely biased because of our background.
    I think that for the layman sailor, that needed a shorter mast and less sail. But for people able to sail correctly a 16 to 18 beach catamaran in a good 15-20 knots breeze, the learning step was not very hard in manageable conditions.
     
  13. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I hear 20' Hobies are pretty stable even in waves, IF you aren't racing. And they can still sail pretty fast if mildly driven. I'm guessing loaded down for cruising the are quite stable, as long as sailed mildly.

    If that is not enough add a bunch of 6" pool noodles just above water line on both sides of both hulls.

    Now I'm trying to imagine what would happen if one hull is pushed into water sailing fast in high wind and extra noodles create a lot of drag on one side and turn boat in direction of wind with sail in same position as it was during reach.

    Hobies come up for FREE or near free on Craiglist all the time, just need to be ready to tow it ASAP. First thing I'd do after getting a tow hitch is find TWO spare trailer tires/wheels, and have a good jack. Maybe even grab a whole extra trailer.
     

  14. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    It's a very good idea starting from a used catamaran. There are plenty. The Hobie 18 with the wings was a pretty good one.
    All catamarans are as stable as pontoons as long to you do not push them too hard and you know how to sail them. That needs a bit of training in a club with a good teacher so you learn the good ways to use it and you learn what is forbidden. Most of the capsizes originate by human mistake, It's like motorcycles (even mopeds), horses etc...but catamarans are easier and the death risk is close to zero.
    The good basics are learnt in a week in a stage in a good club, after you have to train train systematically. It's just a question of feeling and ability.
    Catamarans can be extremely safe as they have considerable margins. So if you sail prudently, you'll get good speeds and good great fun without taking risks even with beasts like a BIM 20.
    The Hobie 20 had sometimes structural problems from 1991 to 1993-94 in the joint deck/hull. Mainstream catamarans of reputable brands can last years and years, ageing is mostly cosmetics and how they have been stored, The most important is to check for cracks, dings and the hulls must not have waves or distortions. The classic stuff buying a used sail boat.
    Do not forget the trailer. Most dinghies and beach cats die in a stupid accident trailer. The most common causes being a gripped ball bearing or worst a blown tire. Well cared trailers can last years and years, it's a simple thing.
     
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