60'+ or - 20' Ocean Racing Monofoiler Design Discussion

Groovy thing that people are out there experimenting with foils. Problem with the list shown above is that these boats are either over-hyped one-offs, or conversions from other, much more successful, non-foiling designs. None of those foiling categories would receive the "successful" indication, as suggested by Randy.

It was said five+ years ago and it's still true today. There is no foiling revolution. There is only slow, incremental evolution and so far, it has not come close to the hoopla that has been spread by the foiling proponent on these pages. One could even say that it's a total bust when it comes to making any substantive impact on production boats and to that end, it (foiling) is still going pretty much nowhere. Neat boats that look like plenty of fun for those with the cash and the inclination, but not even close to penetrating the much larger recreational market.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8

 

The Rs dont really fit with your rebutal (over hyped one offs or conversions), but the arent an indication of Dougs foiling revolution either.

 

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I beg to differ: they are the FIRST class since the Moth to adopt full flying lifting hydrofoils.
They are the FIRST two person class to adopt full flying lifting hydrofoils. They are the FIRST main+jib equipped class to adopt full flying hydrofoils. And they are the FIRST spinnaker equipped class to adopt full flying hydrofoils!
They are as much a part of the revolution as the Moth is.....

 

Isn't it true that in the 2010 Nationals the Rs had exactly two foilers sailing? If true, is the Revolution here?

 

R Class revolution

From the R Class site(see New High Performance Monofoilers thread):

The 2010 Leander was a fantastic showcase for the foiling R's. The breathtaking speed, sailability and obvious fun of the foilers has generated a lot of interest and heralds an exciting resurgence in the R Class. Reliability is getting better with the foils and boats surviving a gruelling Leander Trophy and five race Sprint Series unscathed.

Merde made massive speed and stability improvements throughout the contest by moving closer to TheVirtual's setup. They are now starting to show the potential of the older boats on foils.

One of the important parts of the project has been to make hydrofoiling an affordable and practical part of R sailing for anyone in the fleet no matter what boat they have and how old it may be.
We have a specially built oven and foil moulds for squadron members to easily build their own set of foils. There are also people who have already built foils who are happy to help those who are new to this and let them know how it's done. If you don't want to build foils yourself then you can hire someone within the squadron to build them for you.

 

So amusing to see someone try to pump up his point of view by ignoring the facts.

From the report of the 2010 Nationals: "..Just two boats raced with foils for the majority of the series – the other was Merde, a Woof sailed by Dave Pairman and Tim Allan. (Milner decided after the first race that his new foils need more work before they’re ready for prime time.)..."

Yep, two foilers in a huge worldwide class. What, not a huge worldwide class? A small group of folks in a small geographic area?

Revoloooootion!

 

Looks to me that the class has been around for at least 18-20 years... maybe more, I can't tell with a quick look see at their site. It also looks to me that they didn't start to fiddle with foils until just the last couple of years and it is struggling, mightily, to field anything more than a few boats with foils. To me, that's is precisely what a conversion scenario looks like. It's just like the Moth class, only much, much less enthusiastically turned over.

I know that Doug can't, or won't, face it, but the so-called revolution in foiling is a big fat bust.

 

Well, it's going somewhere, in some places. The Moths are doing pretty well, in some areas. And of course, the fact that a company dropped (reputedly) a couple of big ones on promoting the class probably helped. On the other hand, from the little available on the web (i.e. results of weekly races) the Rs seem to be very quiet, which is a pity for such a great class. And Brace Brace Brace did NOT beat 70 sportsboats, but actually less than a dozen. Seven of them were shorter and older ODs, one was a development of that OD, and one was a home-built boat 4' shorter than BBB.

BBB was first monohull to finish, but the vast majority of the fleet were '60s to '70s cruiser-racers of around 25'. BBB then went to Hong Kong where she was beaten by a couple of 14-year-old Magic 25s for overall line honours but did get two wins (one shared with a Magic) and a capsize, according to Y&Y.

Interesting boat? Yeah; Hugh's a great designer. Revolutionary proof of a superior concept?? Dunno about that.

EDIT

The Rs developed after WW2 but only started spreading outside Canterbury (South Island NZ) in the '50s. They were at some stages arguably THE leading dinghy in the world - the first to trap off wings, etc. But they've sadly shrunk dramatically since the days when they had a fleet of dozens of boats spread across the country and were one of the bigger classes in NZ. The last four nationals have seen 15,15, 12 and 9 starters, despite the fact that they are traditionally reinforced by boats that are normally sailed as 12 Foot Skiffs, using their small rigs to conform to the R Class restrictions. The only results I can find at the moment show only two boats (apparently foilers) and one seahugger at NPYC; hopefully there are more but they are not appearing in results in their home town. The website has also not been updated this season as far as I can see.

Hopefully the Rs, one of THE great classes, will thrive - but from the outside it's hard to see their current state as proof of a revolution.

 

Thanks for that. This has been pointed out a couple of times before, yet the Lord of All Foiling continues to misrepresent the facts.

IIRC, the one other "real" sportboat in that fleet (an old Thompson 8) was actually leading the BBB until their rudder broke.

 

Dss 25

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Dont belive every thing that is written on SA (or the rest of the internet for that matter). There is a PDF of the results on the hosting clubs website, its not that hard to


findhttp://www.herveybaysailingclub.org.au/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=27&func=fileinfo&id=320

 

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There appears to be no argument that they won their VERY FIRST RACE! Pretty damn good considering the circumstances.

 

There are atleast 5 with foils, 3 L3s an L4 and the Woof, Im sure they will survive but as you probably know on a world scale Christchurch is but a large town, and at the moment pretty much the only town that has Rs....

 

Seems you and I have already educated the Lord of Non-Foiling about this just 3 months ago, yet were he is again misrepresenting the facts.

No surprise, he has been doing this sort of thing for the 8 or so years that he has been posting on this forum.

 

You could send that results sheet to our friend by Registered Mail with Return Receipt Requested and it would still be rejected. Apparently, when one pays enormous sums for a fantasy, one is going to dress up in the garb and wear it for all time.