58' Traditional Limit Seiner design plan

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by sterlingboats, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. sterlingboats
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Tenakee Springs, Alaska

    sterlingboats Junior Member

    I have a client who is extremely interested in having a new wood 58' Alaska Limit Seiner built. I am looking for drawings of a classic seiner. This will be a workboat and will be fished in Alaska.

    His family owns the F/V Arline from Vashon Island Washington. A traditional wooden seiner built in the 50's. He would like to build a new boat, built to the limit length, with an emphasis on maximum hold space.

    We are looking for plans, drawings, of traditional seiners. Or a designer, to draw us a boat along classic lines, who understands that we are building a traditional, wooden workboat. Galvanized fastenings, softwood planking.

    thanks,
    Sterling Connelly Chew
     
  2. John Riddle
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: Vermilion, Ohio

    John Riddle Junior Member

    I'm sure there are a number of designers who could meet your needs but I believe (from following his writings for the last few years) that Tad Roberts in Vancouver, BC would be a great choice. He has a wealth of real world experience with that type of commercial vessel and (to me) a great design philosophy. I can imagine that he'd be real interested to speak with you. You can reach him through his website: http://www.tadroberts.ca/ He also has a blog link at the bottom of his home page that is worth a look if you want to get a sense of his thinking.

    Good luck.
     
  3. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Sterling.....

    Some drawings already exist in museums, The H. C. Hanson collection at the Whatcom Museum in Bellingham, Washington. And the William Garden Collection at Mystic Seaport.

    However, these old designs may not be suitable as they are small boats for their length. Not exactly maximum hold space. Today we usually see boats that are huge (depth and beam)for their length.

    These boats were mostly built with bent oak frames, roughly 2.25" by 4" and spaced 10". Would you use something local to replace the white oak?

    Here's a traditional 57' by Hanson......Tiny Boy II

    HCHanson02.jpg

    HCHanson01.jpg
     
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  4. sterlingboats
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Tenakee Springs, Alaska

    sterlingboats Junior Member

    Hi Tad,

    Just looked through the designs on your website.
    I really like your 60' hard chine cargo schooner. Been thinking about a sailing cargo/workboat for myself in the future.

    My father and I own and run a small logging and milling business. Our local woods are Yellow Cedar, Sitka Spruce, Western Hemlock, and what we call "Bull Pine".

    I would like to import the oak for the frames I believe.

    I am interested in the future of finding a good way to frame boats with our local timber. I have been harvesting natural crook yellow cedar tree's and recently used one for a curved bowstem on an 18' daysailor i restored. I am Interested to hear any thoughts on framing with some of our local wood. Cedar steam bends like a dream! but is soft.....

    I have read historical articles from our town about boats that were "framed in yellow cedar, and skinned in western hemlock"

    The Tiny Boy II drawings are right in the ballpark for what my client is looking for. I will show him them and see how he would like to proceed.

    Are those a complete set of plans with the construction plan?


    I was having a hard time finding any drawings. Thank you so much.
    I would like to look into building a hard chine workboat like your 60' for our own use. But I have timber, and not steel, so I had been imagining a hard chine boat traditionally built with a cross planked bottom. Maybe double planked on the bottom.

    Would sure like to hear your thoughts.
     
  5. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    While lots of Yellow Cedar has been used for boatbuilding on this coast, Hemlock is usually avoided as it has little rot resistance. Typical materials here are Red and Yellow Cedar, Douglas Fir, Western Yew for bent framing, and Sitka Spruce for spars. Many workboats are built of nothing but Douglas Fir. I know the Fir doesn't grow up north.

    My own boat is framed with Yellow Cedar and planked with Douglas Fir, spiked together with 4" galvanized spikes, and bolted with hundreds of galvanized carriage bolts. But my frames are double-sawn of 2" flitch, roughly 4" square at the head and 7" by 4" at the heel. So there's lots of meat to take the spikes. Replacing planking we have used galvanized lag bolts which hold well.

    Typical steam bent oak frames in Limit Seiners were about 2.25" by 4". I suppose in Yellow Cedar you could put the frames in in two layers. I've never done it so don't know how well it might work.

    A vee-bottom schooner in any size is certainly possible, double cross planking with tarred felt between would be good on the bottom.
     
  6. sterlingboats
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Tenakee Springs, Alaska

    sterlingboats Junior Member

    Hi Todd,

    Great to hear that they have done double sawn framing with yellow cedar. I do have a pretty endless supply of natural crook cedar but it is awfully time consuming to harvest.
    What sort of boat is yours? I am currently living on my 32' cutter which I am finishing outfitting right now.

    My client and I are putting together real lists of what modern changes he is looking for in the new seiner. After looking at the drawing, we really feel that we would like to hire a designer to take the lines "or shape" of a traditional seiner and draw us a new boat with the modernsystems worked into the design.

    I am looking for detailed plans showing all the main systems, and hardware. Fastener Lists. Lumber lists.

    I would also like to see some different drawings of these boats. My client has spent his whole life working on and around these boats and has a real clear idea of the type of hullshape he wants.

    I have seen and worked on the boat he would like to model our new boat after but have never seen her out of the water.

    Here is a link to a picture of her.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/hawgwildterry/6122258435/

    http://outdoorimage.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Seiner/G0000F9qL0Je.ccM/I0000BMzT4O9bcqc

    We will be working together to come up with clear lists of what we need in our new boat.

    Is this a project that you would be interested in?

    Thanks,
    Sterling Connelly Chew
     

  7. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    coggeframing.jpg

    Above is our boat in frame (1981-82). She's a 50' ketch designed in 1927 by Douglas and Wavel Urry of Vancouver.

    The ultimate shape of your new project will be dictated by structural weight (woods used), hold volume, and tankage volume. The Arline looks like she is wider than the Hanson boat I posted, this stands to reason. Our boat was built at the Northwest School in Port Townsend, at the time run by Bob Prothero. In the 40's, 50's, and 60's the Prothero Brothers yard in Seattle built hundreds of wooden commercial boats. Almost none of those boats were built to drawings, there were a set of molds for each size (beam and depth) boat and they would be spaced out to whatever length the owner wanted. This is why it's hard to locate many drawings of older vessels.

    Anyway if you want to pursue it contact me via email.
     
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