5 meter beach kite boat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Gunnar Sommerlund, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. Gunnar Sommerlund
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 29
    Likes: 4, Points: 3
    Location: Denmark

    Gunnar Sommerlund Marine Engineer

    Grab a coffee, load the idea revolver and keep social distancing during these corona times.
    And also, keep a nice tone.


    This is all about brainstorming and idea sharing, concept development ect.


    Please note that this is purely a thought experiment and an exercise in design process.
    The Idea was born while i was kite surfing doing some hull modelling and of course stumbled upon some old designs that blew my mind.



    THE DESIGN PROCESS CONSISTS OF 6 STEPS:

    1. Define the Problem
    - Create a hull that is approximately (5/5.5m 16/18ft)
    - Powered either with a normal kite-surfers kite or/and an outboard engine.
    - Is able to carry 2 people
    - FOILS!
    - Can handle waves up to 1 meter amplitude

    2. Collect Information

    Check this modified trifoiler

    [​IMG]

    Kitetender and kitetender micro
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    K2 kiteboat
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    3. Brainstorm and Analyze Ideas

    - Trimaran configuration -- higher hull speed, slender hulls (less resistance), good stability.
    Small AMA's doe to small heeling moment of kites

    - Mono hull -- planning ability, stability is determent by width(easy to accommodate people)

    - Pentamaran -- Just kidding it looks cool thou.
    [​IMG]

    Hull shapes -- what shape might suite the project

    Liteboat/modern rowing boat
    [​IMG]
    Surfski
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Solo Skiff

    [​IMG]

    Catamaran hull

    [​IMG]

    Trifoiler hull
    [​IMG]

    Lhydrocoptere
    [​IMG] I guess that complies as a catamaran hull

    Observations
    AMA's do not have to be far apart to ensure stability and need less volume since they wont carry 100 percent load at any given time.

    Sketched ideas in cad

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Please share your thoughts and lets have a concept post going.
     
    Dejay likes this.
  2. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 518
    Likes: 80, Points: 28
    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Haha I'm also sketching in fusion 360 and just downloaded the same mannequin!

    I don't have any experience with hydrofoiling or sailing, but I played with the idea. Have you checked out the book Hydrofoils by Ray Vellinga?

    I think theoretically you could develop a kite foiler as a monohull that gets it's stability from foils closer to it. You'd need a more complex balancing system, but it might save some weight in structure. I think there are also tipped foils or U foils that provide a counterbalance force when tipping / rolling. Or you could have foot pedals to maybe control both yaw and roll to counterbalance.

    But the trimaran foiler in the video is basically automatic self balancing and looks like a pretty good and doable concept.

    What I'd love to see is a kind of autonomous electric hydrofoil surfboard that can balance a person or cargo all on it's own. I mean its more fun if you use your body to to do it! But I think the concept is interesting technically. And a single hydrofoil and strut should give you higher efficiency.
    You'd need multiple articulating joints and be able to tilt and rotate the strut below the craft and all controlled with some rather clever algorithms. Similar to a jumping robot. I think even the second find of those hydrofoil surfboards could be replaced if the main hydrofoil can articulate it's foils. I'm only speculating here of course. But an autonomous high speed super smooth water taxi would be interesting.
     
  3. Gunnar Sommerlund
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 29
    Likes: 4, Points: 3
    Location: Denmark

    Gunnar Sommerlund Marine Engineer

    - Regarding the mannequin. If you set all the components to be aluminium. The weight of the mannequin will be aprox 85kg. It is good for weight calculations.

    - I agree on the mono hull, although my thoughts are that a slender hull with only foils with suffer from stability issues while not in motion. where a wider monohull will suffer from higher resistance at slow speeds, just my thoughts though.

    - I ran into this the other night, it is from french wiki page about kiteboats. Kiteboat — Wikipédia https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiteboat
    I am not familiar with passive foils. I work as a service engineer on propulsion and stabilizing on systems in real world so i am very familiar with automated systems.
    [​IMG]

    Regarding the autonomous electric hydrofoil. I,m sure there might be some stability issues having you so high above the main foil(force*leverage).
    https://i.gyazo.com/8f15de48bbdfff8f3cd9cd032ce59330.png
    Otherwise its like a plane :) and they dont have any issues flying loads at even rough conditions.
    Which makes my wonder, why have no one build an rc model of an fully autonomous hydrofoil sup :p
     
  4. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 518
    Likes: 80, Points: 28
    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    It seems they switched to electronic controls on their K2 kiteboard and also added a rotating seat and a deployment mast for the kite.

    I think even as a design exercise it would help to define the requirements and what you'd want to do with it. Is it just for fun and sport? Do you want to go as fast as possible and race? Do you want to be able to stop and chill on the water? Go fishing? Use it for transportation? Is spray a concern?

    If you didn't want 2 people on a boat or stability at rest, then a hydrofoil kiteboard would seem to be ideal for maximum fun. Or two of them. No moving parts(?) and you use your legs and your body weight to control the foils.

    Looking at the K2 it seems to go up quickly in complexity, but even with electronics it remains a constant challenge. They probably departed from the wave riders in the first version so they get a smoother ride and less spray. Might also be more efficient not having constant micro adjustments in your foils.

    Maybe instead of electronics or wave riders you could have a lever to control the angle of attack and roll for the forward hydrofoils. And the one at the tiller controls them. Not sure how difficult it would be to control that and balance the forces from the kite. Again I'm just speculating as a total newbie with zero experience here :)

    Regarding an autonomous foiling SUP - I think without a payload you could get enough power from a solar panels to foil. Simple, flat, lightweight and self righting structure and no hull to design. Could be very fast small solar powered hobbyist drone ship. And I think the balancing might actually be easier than a robot hopping on a single leg, since you can change the relative position at the bottom by adjusting speed, hydrofoil angle and yaw. Like balancing a vertical stick on your hand.
     

  5. Zilver
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 70
    Likes: 6, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: Amterdam the Netherlands

    Zilver Junior Member

    Ingo Voegler invented a clever system for kitesailing . For your inspiration look as this video :
     
    Dejay likes this.
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