40ft resident mooring (London)- need to build a new boat on it.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by G_On_A_Boat, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. G_On_A_Boat
    Joined: Feb 2014
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    G_On_A_Boat New Member

    Hi guys,

    Just joined this and browsed through this website... but I am really looking for some pretty specific advice which I hope hasn't been asked yet I don't think.

    So I own a 40ft residential mooring in London. Currently have a 1960s wooden norfolk broads cruiser on it. Living reasonably comfortably but there are no washing/toilet facilities on board and being wood requires constant upkeep.

    So I have discussed with the Marina management what I could build or have built. The criteria is as follows:

    *Must look like a boat (I reckon I can be clever about this one boats come in all shapes and sizes)
    *Must be navigable (& have a working engine)
    *Must not pump out sewage but have tanks


    Thats the Marina requirements mine are pretty simple:

    I don't mind what construction open to all but I would rather maintenance free. Been looking at reinforced concrete like they do in Holland. And Fiberglass Catamarans

    Predominantly a home so doesn't have to be fast I doubt I will even go out in it.

    Insulated and warm for the english winters.

    Smart use of space for Water tanks toilets beds etc

    Open to all suggestions look forward to hearing your opinions. I am a 21 year old student with little experience than what I have done myself so could really use all the help I can get.

    Thanks,
    George
     
  2. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Hello George and welcome to the forum. I wish I was in your shoes and owned a slip but I'm 72 and have not found a way to reverse that. I'm building a 31' wood hull boat for a live aboard and to tow around the US and it's rivers and lakes and close in off shore waters. the beam is 8' inside and 8'-6" outside which can be towed anywhere.
    I'm having an Outboard engine and that is a good idea for you and your boat and less money then an inboard. The hull will be fiberglassed over then painted.
    You do not tells us your skill level so I'm going to speak in general terms. You might be better off finding a used boat that fits the size you need and fix it up. My core living area is 8' x 14' with 6'-8" head room and R-15 insulation in the ceiling out if 3-1" layers of stryofoam which also qualifies as flotation. Up front I have 2-36" by 21" seats facing forward and down the starboard side a 48" desk and a 7' x 3' sofa/ bunks beds. the backrest swings up to become the upper bed. Port side is a 3' x3' bath shower combo with a corner toilet. Then a 24" space for a 7 CF refrigerator. a 24" sink area. a 20" range/oven and a 28" washing machine. room between is 24" and 36". Forward in the bow area is a full Queen bed. I will carry 97 gallons of fuel, 80 gallons of water with room for much more. My waste tank area will carry up to 97 gallons..I have a rear deck area that is covered and is 8' x 8'. I will have full heat and AC. This design took awhile and represents the smallest living space I can enjoy, that has everything including tons of storage, floor freezer and much more. Just some ideas for you. Stan
    PS I will have onboard a 3,000 watt generator and 3-28 pound propane bottles, out of sight in the transom area.



    george
     
  3. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    ....Europe and the UK is packed with barges,have you considered that?
     
  4. G_On_A_Boat
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    G_On_A_Boat New Member

    Too narrow for me


    Hi there,

    Marina charges by the length not by the width so having a barge is very expensive A 40ft barge unless I could find a very wide one would be quite small.

    Thanks
     
  5. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I spent one snowy, icy winter on an old wooden motorboat, so I know what its like.

    My suggestion. Buy an old used grp motorboat from the 1960's. Rip out the inboard engine and fuel tank if necessary. Fit a composting toilet (they work great) and a small outboard "oh dear it doesn't seem to work right now, I had it running last week though, must be a fouled plug"

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  6. G_On_A_Boat
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    G_On_A_Boat New Member

    Thanks for your advice! Definitely food for thought! Those kind of amenities are what I want. Fiberglass is what you would recommend over concrete? An outboard would indeed be a cheaper alternative.

    I will also have onboard the propane bottles, but I should look into a generator. The Marina has shore power but a generator could be better!

    Thanks,
    George
     
  7. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member

    George,
    I think what you are looking for is a Thames Barge but without the complicated woodwork of making the ends pointy. I saw a Tad Roberts design that achieves the look with a pram bow.

    http://www.tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/sail/harry226

    To make it 'go' you want an outboard in a well -hidden for looks, pulls out of the water for long periods sitting and turns for maneuvering. I would consider putting one at each end for maneuvering your oversize under-powered barge.

    Materials, concrete might be nice for the waterline down but be careful with steel reinforcement rusting. Plywood is tough to beat for structure at low price. Fiberglass over foam is great insulation and low care. Standing seam steel or aluminum roof is longest life and lowest care.
     
  8. David Tyler
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    David Tyler J. R. A. Committee Member

    George,
    I'm living (6 years half time, 7 years full time) on a cruising sail boat 35ft x 11ft, and have all the room I need for one, and enough space for two if both are boat-dwellers by nature. One long term cruiser, can't remember who, said "don't be over-boated!". If you go for a rectangular planform so that you get the maximum usable volume into your length and beam, you can go for much less than 40ft. Check out

    http://www.triloboats.com/

    for a very good example of a range of boats meant as movable, sailable, motorable houseboats, with designs based on the use of 8ft x 4ft sheet material. The designers live on theirs, in Alaska, so keeping warm is achievable! Building is easy and quick.
    I reckon plywood, bonded and coated with thick glass and epoxy and painted with two part polyurethane, is now the construction method with the least maintenance. I haven't done much to the outside of mine in 13 1/2 years, though the paint is going a bit chalky. No rust, no corrosion, no osmosis, no difficulty in keeping the paint on.
    Yes to composting toilets. Best thing I ever did, throwing out the holding tank and Lavac.
     
  9. David Tyler
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    David Tyler J. R. A. Committee Member

    Maybe you're thinking of the UK 6ft 10in wide (!) narrowboat, where you have to go well above 40ft to get enough accommodation. A barge is wider, according to the canal system it operates on. In the UK, that would be twice the narrowboat width, nearer to 14ft.
    40ft x 14ft is a very big boat. Even a 32ft x 12ft Triloboat is palatial, for one person.
     
  10. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    If you were running a generator in a marina near me, you'd find that after the 3rd complaint that you ignored (I'm a patient type of person) something terminal would happen to your generator.

    In short, do not run a generator in a marina. It is a very unfriendly thing to do to your neighbours.

    On the boat issue, life is short. Buy one. Building is fun but it takes time, space, money, tools and skills. You can buy the space and tools but skills take time, and you can't buy more of that.

    Having said that, I'd go for either plywood and epoxy fibreglass sheathing or steel for a hull. But that's my comfort factor for working with materials.

    A 40' by say 14' beam barge type boat has a ton of room. It'd be a great liveaboard platform.

    PDW
     
  11. SaugatuckWB
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    SaugatuckWB Junior Member

    I will recommend something like I built and live on (but not in the winter). I have a River Walker houseboat design by George Buehler. The design is a simple barge hull, plywood with fiberglass sheathing. I used primarily lumberyard materials. Its outboard powered, and if you don't intend to move it much just about any outboard would work. I started with a $75 Tohatsu 25hp that worked alright and now have a 40hp Honda that is about perfect. I use it a lot and run sight seeing charters. A 9.9 high-thrust would get you around. I built it 10' beam and 30" LOA , departing from the plans. But its so simple the plans are just guide. Make it longer, wider, whatever. Also you could adapt the pilot house for other uses of you won't be underway much.

    See Buehler's webpage for pics of my boat or www.saugatuckwoodenboatcruises.com

    Cost was about $25k, but you could do it for half of that if you really tried.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    "London" is a pretty big place - are you in the tidal Thames or in a canal?? If you want to move in the Thames you'll need a bigger engine than if it's in a canal. (and for US readers fuel is USD10 a gal in the UK, so a big gas guzzler engine is out).

    You'll also need to check out the regulations for inland waters, another reason for buying a used boat is that it already has the necessary paperwork done.

    You'd probably also be wise to blend into the "scenery" so an AWB makes sense

    Richard Woods
     
  13. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Please do not try a concrete hull. You will have made a big mistake. Wood with fiberglass over or all fiberglass or aluminum, or even steel.
     
  14. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Yes that is what I am talking about,I was on a barge in the Thames a few years ago and it was about 12' wide.
     

  15. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    No tell them it is 7ft long and 40ft wide, but sails sideways. They may believe you. I know someone who had a 40ft trimaran who got a Cowes marina to charge him for 18ft when he pulled that trick

    Seriously, a 40ft barge is huge. My one bed flat in Plymouth is 300sqft, my 2 bed in the USA is 500sqft, the same as a 40ft x 12ft barge

    Richard Woods
     
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