40' Yankee Star, wood species for frames & hull?

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by Prudhomme, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    It's a pretty expensive boat, classic heavy displacement. The rig is also rather expensive: ketch on a 40 feet so you'll need 2 complete masts and rigging plus the convenient hardware and sails...
    Guessing about the displacement the engine will be also costly. Such a boat asks for at least more than 4000 hours if made in laminated wood by an non experienced amateur. That means more than 2 years of work for a lone man. I would say 3 years for a very determined guy.

    In my opinion not a first boat to build. Ok the plans are very cheap but you should consider a more modern boat (you'll discover too late how many hours can take to make such a skeg for the rudder) in an easier material like wood strip plank and glass epoxy. Forget a one off polyester with these shapes, the male plug will be a big cost. C Flex is a truly a pain. Polyester asks also for teams as it's impossible or at least not practical to laminate alone on a 40 feet.

    If you make the plan stick to the NA specifications, and consider the total cost. Such a boat costs at least 5 five times the cost of the bare hull (I'm sure you made a estimation of budget on a rough calculation of the hull). Probably this boat will cost in raw materials and equipment more than a used one.

    Make a calculation of what you can afford on used boats. Consider maybe that 3 years working for making savings would be maybe more interesting if you have a profession with good earnings...There are plenty of used sail boats. A lot are made in good polyester and are a bargain to refit to your specifications.

    Consider also that a 40 feet heavy displacement is a very physical boat for a couple in bad weather; maybe a 33-36 feet would be a better choice and would cost far less with enough room for a couple.

    My personal experience sailing with my girl friends in Europe from North Sea, Channel, Ireland until Canary Islands and Azores that the best size was a Centurion of 9.14 meters (about 30 feet). The length of the trips was from 2 weeks to 10 weeks. A bit too small for living aboard all year but so easy to manage in a 60 knots gale compared to a boat weighting 4 times more with 4 sails on 2 masts to manage instead of 2 on just one mast...
     
  2. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    If I remember it's 9 tons, not that heavy for a 40'
    31'8" Lwl, 18,500 lbs.
    The displacement/length is 260.10, very close to your own boat Ilan.
    Numbers are important when we talk about heavy or light displacement. Just a glimpse at the profile is not enough to judge.
    So your 30' Centurion will displace 4,625 Lbs according to you? (4 time less since the Yankee is 4 time more) which will means a displacement length of 76.4. OK perhaps for a racing boat IMS or other light racer, but for cruising as you mention?
    No I think a cruising boat the weight on the Yankee is quite in the average even in the light range.
    "Modern" which someone will have to explain me what this word means, boat follow the same displacement rule for extended cruising range than any other boat on the same category.
    Ilan building your own boat is not always a monetary means, it is the journey, the fact someone don't just buy, but built. And that make the difference between a consumer and a creator. Even if he take 15 years, so what?
    15 years working on a cubical is not exactly fun. (Or 3)
     
  3. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    I made a mistake the displacement is twice...
    The Centurion 32
    Displacement 5.150 kg true displacement full loaded for cruising around 5.5 tons
    Weight ready to sail 4.650 kg
    Lest 1.980 kg
    L 9.75
    LWL 7.45

    http://www.centurion32.com/index2.html
    you'll find many at 25000 Euros. Most are in pretty good shape, Wauquiez quality is outstanding and they age very well.
    Example:
    http://www.annoncesbateau.com/voilier/occasion-annonce-606955.html
    with a good set of pics and as you see it's in good condition and equipped at 29000 Euros.

    Announced weights are always optimistic. The true full load displacement of a 40 feet in the same category will be be around 10 to 11 metric tons. Making one alone is more than 4000 hours...I do not think that spending 4000 hours working on a boat, even as initiation and mental preparation journey for the future cruises, is great fun UNLESS you are a builder in the depth of your soul... Or you are a zen master. I guess that the spouse won't be happy of a 15 years building...maybe yes if she hates sailing, the most expensive, slowest and wettest mean of transportation.

    You can have also the Moitessier approach, and make a boat so ugly that even new it looks already like a junk piece. You can even make it in a so tight budget and so under-equipped that taking a reef is a dangerous two hours job. I have seen many like that during the boom of the amateur boatbuilder in France during the 70 and 80.

    Another approach of the problematic; good boat for a couple is a used 36 feet for a very reputable shipyard like Wauquiez. There are plenty in Europe and these boats at 25 years old are almost new.
    You can get a centurion 36 1988 perfectly equipped for 69000 Euros including the 21% sales taxes. That means if exported to the the USA the sale taxes is reimbursed to the american buyer...who will pay the USA customs. Calculations to make.

    Let's say that put the boat at 120 000 USD after complete revision. It's less than a amateur building and equipping a new boat of this size, and you have saved 4000 hours of your life if you are not a natural born builder.

    http://pro.annonces-marine.com/gallery.php?idad=33942&strtype=bateau&idcli=1932

    Some pics showing what you get for 69000 Euros all taxes included. Look a the quality of construction, material (count the number of winches, the hydraulic wheel, security, etc), complete sails and good general state. Need to build yourself a boat only for trying to save bucks, when you can get that??? I would think over...

    Taking it back the boat to the USA would be a nice cruise...
     

  4. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Ilian your Centurion (following your specifications) as a displacement/length of 347.2 against D/L of 260.1 for the Yankee, meaning is is heavier for its length than the Yankee by 25%.
    I am not defending the Yankee, just I put the reasoning of comparing displacement boat in perspective.
    And you miss the point. First it will not take 4000 hours to built the Yankee but at least 8000 hours to 12000. Meaning the time as no relevancy. The time is nothing, it is the journey, the pride which is important.
    Why "saving" time. Time is the only thing you can control, its yours. Meaning your time Iian is not the time of everyone else. No one has to live following your conception of time. No one has to live following my conception of time.
    Why bashing Moitessier and his ugly boat? What is a ugly boat? You can't be the judge of beauty on naval matter. You can't be the judge of the way people get around the lake of funds.
    Someone in a marina will not recognize your boat since they are all the same. Is that mean your boat is beautiful because it looks like the other? I don't know, I don't judge.
    What I do has not to be followed by other, what you do pattern to you. Just give your experienced opinion, which is always welcome. But understand also other people approach to boats
    A friend of mine launched is schooner 20 years in the building, his expression was a sight to behold.
    Buying second hand plastic boat is not a journey, it is going to buy a boat. Nothing wrong with that.
    We are talking you and me apple and oranges. We are not on the same channel with our VHF ;)
    If you come to Maine we will continue this interesting conversation on my boat! (get ready, it is a small one but mighty heavy: 450.6)
     
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