360 rotate sail drive

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by congellous, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

    Hi, Can anyone point towards a thread to do with 360 docking. I'm thinking of having a sail drive on a pontoon boat run from an Agni Lynch motor and would like it to be able to rotate 360 degrees for docking. Has anyone discussed this or have any experience... Thanks
     

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  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A full 360 degree rotation causes some unique engineering issues. Can you define the vessel's needs a bit better?

    A sail drive isn't the best choice for your pancake motor. You're just dragging around gear sets, raw water pump, possibly exhaust plumbing, for no good reason, all detracting from efficiency.
     
  3. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    At least one commercial version with similar ambitions from Mastervolt -

    http://www.mastervolt.com/press-releases/the-new-podmaster-from-mastervolt/
     
  4. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

    The motor is 11kg and to my knowledge doesn't need anything else. The use is docking when past it's usual direction otherwise slow cruising on a canal. Thanks
     
  5. mselle
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    mselle Transportation Designer

    I came across this: Whisperdrive, though I don't know if it does 360deg.
     
  6. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

    Yeah thanks, I'd seen that one, I was wondering how effective it would be on my cat, only for docking sideways and diagonally slowly, the rest of the time as normal
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've only seen one WisperDrive and it was a fixed mount.

    Again, what are the parameters for this requirement (boat size, weight, etc.) as parking a typical pontoon boat isn't especially difficult. Skidding one dead sideways can work with a more conventional approach (dropping in a trolling motor for example), while a main drive system handles the propulsion chores. Seems a simpler, cheaper way to go then cobbling together an assembly of parts, not well suited for each other.
     
  8. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

    Yeah same pontoon boat, as you say not particularly difficult. If I'm designing I don't want to be dropping other motors in, I want the main drive to do the lot really. The propellor shaft and Agni/lynch motor will be rated to each other accurate design is what I'm planning.
     
  9. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    It's not that it can't be done, but it is to say the engineering problems are significant and current retail applications/products aren't especially cheap.

    The easiest route is a submersed motor, mounted on a shaft, with it's shaft horizontal, like a trolling motor. This places the motor in a place it can be continuously cooled, the shaft is in alignment with desired thrust vector and the shaft mount will permit 360 degree rotation. Personally, I think the 360 degree rotation aspect a limiting factor, when 270 degrees could be easily achieved and would solve sideways handling issues. Of course, mounting a pancake motor of this size, isn't the best route for a prop, but if this is what you have. Adding a 90 degree gear set could reduce a considerable amount of shadow, before the prop, but you'll have some loses with this arrangement. Maybe a flexible shaft setup should be looked at.
     
  11. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

    Wow sounds ambitious, I'm looking at the Voith azimuth system. I suppose a prop shaft with the motor in board might be safer all round if it gets damaged or snagged....
     
  12. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    I have used azimuthing thrusters and propulsion on numerous commercial vessels, mostly tugs, but some DP vessels as well.
    Some advantages are: no reverse gears and the propeller doesn't loose efficiency operating in reverse.
    As to maneuverability with a single thruster, azimuthing doesn't help that much. But with twin azimuthing thrusters, and some skill in handling them, you can maneuver the boat into any space big enough for the boat.
     
  13. congellous
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    congellous Junior Member

    Thanks, so one is no use or two is much better, I mean even with an outboard you can get manoeuvrability and so I've been told dropping one on the side of the boat will even move it sideways ?
     
  14. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

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  15. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

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