3500 migrants a year drowning in the Med is unacceptable. It's action time!

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Stephen Ditmore, Jan 23, 2016.

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  1. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Actually, they only began to live in peace after they invaded Europe by force and by force were driven out. Remember what Spain, Italy, Romania and others went through or is that no longer taught? Now they want another go at us. By "us" I mean western civilization.
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    hoytedow, you are quite right, mankind has always done terrible things but I was talking about the last 70 or 100 years.
    The Arabs invaded Spain and left us a culture that many of us feel proud. The indigenous population of some of the territories conquered by Europeans can not say the same.
    I think this can be a touchy subject in which it is better not deepen.
     
  3. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    Hi Tansl

    You are so correct as native Indian would totally agree who where treated worse than unwanted animals as the immigrates stole their country "laurels ancestors" or the people that did not want to migrate to America from Africa are owned as slaves by the invasive Europeans.
    The same as Australia and New Zealand, they did try to take over India and Vietnam, and so on but failed, as Japan did try with China and failed.
    How every this modern day migration is expcetable when it comes to humanitarian I say open the gates, but unfortunate religion is the real causes of all the worlds problems "war" especially Christians past history are the biggest invasive species.
    People ask me which country I come from while on my travels, deep down I like to say I come from earth and not a nation.
     
  4. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    As this discussion slips further and further away from reality, bear in mind the goal posts have changed since the thread started. Europe failed to stop the migrants, in fact they accelerated in number, overwhelming border crossings, refugee camps and host country goodwill. Public opinion has changed, politicians fear losing their seats, hence this year it cannot be allowed to happen again.

    Turkey has been paid off to stem the flow from the east however the southern influx continues.

    With the Brexit debate raging, Mrs Merkel looking uncomfortable and right wing parties doing well all over europe, the message is loud and clear - no more refugees.
     
  5. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    The message is loud and clear, more refugees, especially climate change refugees as in the Syria situation today.

    Climate change and Global warming's future when food and water are no longer available or ethnic cleansing and genocide, you can stop people fleeing for their life's to a safer country or to find food.

    Its really easy to sum up as place one self in the shoes of the refugees especially women and children.

    It will not be long and we are all in the same boat, such as what happens when the fish are no longer available which is soon, or the inevitable nuclear war, or the world wide famine caused by climate change in the very near future.



    .
     
  6. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Myark, add wars for resources to the list and I will completely agree with you.

    Refugees are not an ideological playfield for left-wing vs. right-wing game. They are not a political tool for winning the next elections.
    They are the product of a very particular moment in the history of our planet, which in turn is the sum of past decades of wrong political, social, industrial and economical choices.

    We are living a very intense and uncertain historical moment of the world. A privilege of our generation among thousands of others before us, from one side. A scary and uncertain future on the other.
     
  7. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Myark, you misinformed and uninformed earthling, would be well advised to check your facts before making gross assumptions about my ancestors. More than one of them married Indians, as they were known back then, and I count them as family who I deeply love and respect for the love and care they gave to the children they raised. I strongly oppose what our government did to the American Indian as I oppose the murder by other Indians of some of my blood relatives in eastern Kentucky and more recently, in Oklahoma. Ain't nobody perfect, here or any place else.
     
  8. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    As always Humans create problems trying to solve problems so fix the problem at the source, don`t export it to other countries and ruin those countries too.
    Teaching Culture and Religion to the new generation is the worst form of child abuse.
     
  9. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    Well said tom.
     
  10. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Without culture we may as well be swinging in the trees like a bunch of hairless monkeys.

    Without religion there is no concept of right and wrong and everyone would be everyone else's predator or victim.

    When you go to a new civilization, don't bring the problems of the old civilization with you.
     
  11. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The concepts exist before religions manipulate or assign rewards and punishments to them.
     
  12. serow
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    serow Junior Member

    Hello everybody.

    Is this still boatdesign.Net?
     
  13. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    Everything is good to create waves.......:D
     
  14. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Well, that's a very insulting thing to say, that people can't figure out right from wrong without religion.

    Maybe you couldn't, maybe you don't have much capacity to reason and you need to be actually told you shouldn't ra pe and you shouldn't murder and you shouldn't steal.

    I guess you don't realize that you're admitting that without your religious beliefs, your personal default mode is a psychopath.

    It's people like you that religion, prisons and psychiatric hospitals were invented for.
     

  15. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Everything is relative. What we consider as a psychopath mode could be an ordinary way of dealing with life by some other. :)

    A few examples:
    1) apparently, some ISIS fighters consider raping women and torturing and killing antagonists as a normal way of living. Their personalized religion tells them that it is ok, so they do it with not many afterthoughts.
    2) the ortodox christianity considers valid the "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" concept. Besides that, the God from the Old Testament was a quite horrible guy, with genocidal and mass-murdering moments. So killing someone who did the same thing is a morally acceptable thing, because the religious books said so.
    3) for the ancient Romans killing was just a mean of arriving to a goal, and death (even violent one) was a part of the big game. Their gods were quite bloodthirsty too, incidentally.

    The point being - our morality is shaped by the ambient in which we were raised and educated. A good from my point of view is not necessarily a good from someone else's. Without this imprinting from their surrounding, 10 individuals grown in separate and different places would develop 10 different concepts of good and bad.

    I am quite amazed that the referee has not jumped in yet to this thread, to call the foul and give us a yellow card each. :D
     
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