3500 migrants a year drowning in the Med is unacceptable. It's action time!

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Stephen Ditmore, Jan 23, 2016.

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  1. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Again, this points to the problem being a mostly political (corruption)/economic (greed)/power (ego) problem and not a 'mechanical' problem such as, no safe boats or safe boat designs, no bona-fide flotation vests etc.
     
  2. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    (I know this is off topic, again, and I will attempt to not do it, again. Honest.)

    I thought you and hoytedow might find these interesting. "Perverse subsidies" and "Perverse incentive". Scroll about halfway down the page to ''Subsidies'' on this one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy#Perverse_subsidies

    This is the other...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
     
  3. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    And yet, in many cases, it is a boat (or boat safety) failure that kills people. So why not speak to that, SamSam? There's some connective tissue missing from your reasoning.
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I did not want to intervene again in this thread, but .....
    I think there is in any case "boat (or boat safety) failure" but a boat misused, poorly maintained, overloaded with people, etc.
     
  5. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    I'm with you TANSL, and would include all that under "boat safety failure". So let's talk about what is vs. isn't safe use of a safe boat, and how to educate people about it.
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I think the owner is fully aware of the situation of his boat and, before finally leave, rather get a few thousand euros for it. Therefore, I am convinced that it is not to teach anyone to do "safe" his boat.
     
  7. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Considering the money people are paying maybe we should let the cruise lines get into the act under strict regulation? They would be responsible for providing paperwork etc, providing highly details description (pictures, biometrics, blood testing) of each passenger, could still collect the outrageous fees, and the trip would be considerably more comfortable and enjoyable for the refugees.
     
  8. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    The problem must be solved on land to stop the sea madness......."simple" as that.
    UN should have taken up it's role years ago but with so many mixed interests it turned into a rich men's club where only the employees have a good life.....Oh well, same can be said about the EEC......
    One thing is clear, when money is involved a human live means nothing...not much change in history in that regard over the past centuries I guess....
     
  9. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    Its not just the sea madness, its land as well, we strip forest and consider animal life is worth nothing of any feeling or conscience except money "greed" simply to satisfy taste buds when there are earth user friendly alternatives that form love and caring, it said what we do to other earthlings is what we end up doing to each other, the only reasons war have scaled down is fear of an all out nuclear war which sooner or later under Murphy's law a nuclear war will happen unless by some miracle humans start caring about other earthlings besides them self's

    Humans are acting like a light bulb that glows its brightest just before blowing a bulb, "nuclear war"
     
  10. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Nope, it's pretty straightforward.

    Were there a political solution that worked, people wouldn't be getting on the boats and there'd be no failures at sea to kill people.

    Solve the political problem and the other one becomes a non-issue.

    Fail to address the political problem and you're wasting your time because the drownings are a response to politics. I predict that you'll never get Turkey to agree to effective policing of its coastline, assuming they even have the technical ability to do so.

    Also, do you really think that if you or someone else cam up with a safe way to transfer people en masse from Turkey to Greece then further into the EU, Greece et al wouldn't turn the boats back?

    It's already happening.

    PDW
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  11. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    Myark, The " experts" predict civil wars as being the "in" thing not World wars.
    Our enemys have been imported and are in our back yard now to make things more convienent when energy runs out.
     
  12. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    With ongoing expansion of population and accelerating climate change causing famine and new strains of disease that antibiotics have no effect, then prepare NZ for mass immigration, as for the world war I really meant it would take a couple of hours for nuclear weapons to hit targets in China, Russia, England and the USA and its over, including the fall that out would affect their neighboring countries.
    Nz fortunately is the most distanced from the radiation fall out, and thanks to the stance of anti nuclear protesters forcing the USA war ships out of the NZ ocean territory's we may have a chance, but expect every nation and his dog to be in on some sort of water craft making a desperate attempt to cross the ocean in hope NZ may not been affected by their self inflicted destruction.
    You may remember when NZ would not let the USA war ships in our ocean territory's our economy was politically punished to dare resist nuclear war ships.
     

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  13. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    The chances of a nuclear war are limited I guess simply because it's non-profitable.A chain reaction might turn the world into one big Chernobile in a matter of days.
    Civil wars with "conventional" weapons on the other hand are the jackpot.......$$$$$$$ and what better place to start such a mass civil war is there as Europe ? Many countries, cultures and etnic groups on a "confined" space=perfect.........All you have to do is add a catalisator and KABOEM !!!!!!

    I'm worried that "refugees" are used as catalisator.....worldwide
     
  14. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    Oh.. it all such a worry is it not..we do have such pressures imposed on us these days with every one has a solution but no one takes any notice. Perhaps we would be better off with out high tech media flooding us with all of the troubles happening all over the World.
    I am just glade that I have lived in the best of times when most people were reasonably content. Perhaps World travel should be banned and we should mind our own affairs and eat local grown to save what is left of the planet.
    Here in New Zealand with all the millions of Tourists and other invaders all services and quiet places are overrun and no homes are available/ affordable for locals.
    All this because some do-gooders want to help others who have created their own cesspits.
     

  15. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    My view is close to your, Westel. But surely we should look at the situation as it is and ask, why are the measures taken so far not working? What else can be done BEFORE it comes down to a choice of plucking them out of the sea, or allowing them to die?
     
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