3500 migrants a year drowning in the Med is unacceptable. It's action time!

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Stephen Ditmore, Jan 23, 2016.

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  1. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    1/100 of 1 % would be too much.
    I agree there should be no subsidies. All business should stand on its own or fail on its own. Stop throwing good money after bad.
     
  2. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Or, as I opined some years ago, "too big to fail" shouldn't be used for anything but maybe the title of a **** (edit: dirty movie ... profanity blocker). ***


    *** I detest ****, but that doesn't mean I'm opposed to comedy.
     
  3. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Well, if you said .01%, you'd be 683% wrong.
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmed...s_way_off_on_public_broadcasting_funding.html

    For 2014, it was even less, .00013%. The CPB gets about .00085% of the defence budget, which was $521 billion. They only get .0054% of the $82.5 BILLION tax write off subsidy that religious churches get.

    [/quote]
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/22/you-give-religions-more-than-82-5-billion-a-year/

    I'm always amazed and always dismayed how little critical thinking folks do. Getting all hot and bothered about the .00014% the CPB gets for informing people of facts while organized religion gets 185 times as much for disseminating fiction....only in Amurca I guess.
     
  4. GTO
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    GTO Senior Member

    You mean churches get to keep the money donated, voluntarily, to them.
    Instead of being seized by the government.
    Darn that 'murican constitution, maintaining a separation of church and state powers.
    Vote in the Pope for President!!!
     
  5. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Friends, we are getting a mite off topic here.

    I write that more for my benefit because I've very strong opinions on these matters, and wall-o-text arguments to back them, but this isn't the place.
     
  6. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    Do a Google search on European farming subsidies and see the insanity of what is going on with tax money.....and we dont give a damn about it !!
     
  7. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    No,no,no,nonono. The link I posted didn't connect somehow, it just went to the first link. Here is the second link...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...give-religions-more-than-82-5-billion-a-year/

    Look at all the tax subsidy they get.
     
  8. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    The times the farmers go on strike for more and flood the roads with their tractors aside. ;)
     
  9. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Not paying taxes is not a subsidy. It is not the principal function of people in society to fund their governments.

    A subsidy is the government writing you a check for your use, having taken the money from others through taxation or pulling it outta thin air by printing. It is a form of appropriation.
     
  10. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    I can't say that I prefer a strike road block by farmers over one by truckers or taxi drivers....I'm equally p#ssed and allways find that blocking roads I don't use would serve their cause better:D:D
     
  11. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    It's two sides of the same coin. Everyone benefits from government services, including churches. If you want government, it needs to be paid for. Taxes do that. If the government gives a subsidy to someone, taxes need to be raised on others to make up the balance. If the government doesn't collect taxes from someone, taxes need to be raised on others to make up the balance. Tailor made for this government religious subsidy is the term 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul'. Tax writeoffs or outright subsidies are the same thing, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy#Tax_subsidy
     
  12. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Let's try to find such an alternative forum, as the moderator has asked. Any suggestions?

    Where there is no need to transport an automobile, might this be a starting point?
    http://www.proboat.com/2015/12/patrol-boat-in-a-box/

    Here are a few principles for what I would consider a safe design:
    • Compliant with applicable ISO categories. (IMO & SOLAS where applicable.)
    • Sized according to intended number of passengers.
    • Decked - no cockpit sole below the waterline. Generous freeing ports if there is a gunwale. Lifelines if no gunwale. Freeboard to deck edge not less than 1/6 of beam IN THE FULL LOAD CONDITION.
    • Deck area not to exceed what is required for the intended number of passengers (perhaps incorporating tumblehome such that the waterline beam is wider than the deck beam).
    • Generous foam flotation, more than adequate subdivision, or both. It is generally envisioned that subdivision is all the way up to the deck.
    The intent is compliance with all laws, including, but not limited to, those recognized as applying in international waters.

    Overloading of boats can and should be made illegal. The law should be enforced against the boat owner, captain, and/or those in de-facto control of the boat. Where money is exchanged, enforcement should be directed toward the recipient of funds.

    That said, access to the sea is a right that should not be dependent on nationality.
     
  13. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    Are you serious , "enforce law against the boat owner" or "enforcement should be directed toward the recepient of funds" ?

    Any idea how you gonna do this in a foreign country where that government itself gives a sh#t about rules/laws/international agreements etc....
    Are you really that naive to even think something like this would work ? Controle 24/7 of thousands of miles of deserted coastline....in a foreign country to give the boat owner a fine or confiscate his money?

    Good luck !!
     
  14. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    A privately owned pontoon you would not need all those rules for example the smaller Myark amphibious folding trailer barge weighs under 400 kg, meaning a small car can legally tow with out trailer brakes, in fact its within the strict factory specs of a small car manufacturer for vehicles weighing less than 1000 kg.
    Its width you need at sea so at 3.m wide with light car on deck for the cabin and comfort also the pontoons are sealed compartments that can be used for water, food and gas storage.
    If you are worried about buoyancy and by some miracle all the sealed hulls ruptured its simple not to use expensive foam, all you need is second hand plastic empty water bottles with lids attached are plastic recycling cost and super light, when near land, ditch the plastic bottles in recycle rubbish bin to regain the sealed storage spaces.
    You do not need people smugglers as a cell phone can be used for navigation as they are on roads.
    How ever a group 8 pontoons with one experienced sailor would be beneficial as the pontoons can be purchases and shipped in a 12m container that has 8 units stowed which latched together at sea gives a deck space of 24.m X 6.m which then you still do not need a survey as with a few minutes each pontoon can unlatch and be independent to travel their own ways when close to land.
    If they charge a fee of $6000 each person to travel in dangerous rubber inflatable pontoons its better to buy a $6000 folding trailer pontoon that can float a family and their vehicle to safety, then they can sell the pontoon when arrive on land if not needed.
     

  15. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Turkey's policies are an issue very much in play. Turkey is not Libya. Turkey wants to be part of the EU, so the incentive for them to clean up their act is there. What I'm trying to say is that the messaging from Europe, and from those who speak for the international maritime community, needs to be clear.
     
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