34th America's Cup: multihulls!

(Quote.) It would be nice if these "ocean racers" where actually forced, to make a 500 mile passage before they'd qualify for the various events. (Quote.)

Don't forget it was Arthur Piver who was lost at sea doing just that, ---- prior to the OSTAR

 

Yep, it's funny to see a bunch of people claiming that the AC should be "the biggest baddest boats" because that is supposedly in the spirit of the Deed and the Cup, while ignoring the fact that for most of the Cup's history the same Deed specified that the boats had to sail to the venue.

I'm not sure that the AC boats were really called "ocean racers" in the form in which they raced the AC, although a couple of the early challengers came close. Funnily enough, some the 12s were of course quite successful offshore racers in later life and the early ones could, with some simple mods, have certainly sailed to the venue as the Deed required for many years - and yet many people claim that 12s were not in the true spirit of the Cup.

 

I'm a bit late in saying this, but EXCELLENT POST!

 

...

An opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal today refers to Ellison's reaction to the 1998 Sydney-Hobart race, which I'd forgotten. The article is written by the author of a book about that race, and I'm pretty sure that Ellison is going to do what he can to avoid further criticism of this kind, but without abandoning the '72 as the full article calls for:

 

I even thought about making them take if offshore in 15 knots minimum at least once every 4 th race.

Make it a full day race and more real - like from port, out past a marker placed offshore, then to up/down the coast to a marker and then back. Let them know that they need to be able to compete in the rough and on all points of sail.

Not only take it offshore but skew to points to make sure they compete.

Race ends at the winning time plus 20% and any DNF counts double against you.

DZ did lots of training offshore, but for that AC they were not sure when and where they were going to race.

Just knowing that your boat & team will have to face something like the above, makes them go out and dip into the knowledge base for all of the offshore racing that is done.

On the other hand, as a single day adventure, the risk of getting caught in a really mean situation can be minimized.

With the current rules, the designers are pushed optimize for the light stuff, survive the medium stuff and skip out at a point where lots of day sailors are still willing to go out.

 

On San Francisco Bay it's not just wind, it's also the strength of the tides. 30kt Westerly on an ebb tide and 30kt Westerly on a flood are two very different things.

And when testing/training (the current schedule driver for the teams) there's also the traffic. It would not surprise me in the least if some other vessel were found to be involved, even indirectly, in this sad affair.

Earl

 

the first a c boats had to be able to cross the atlantic, now they struggle to cross the bay

 

was it on google earth

 

34th AC

=========
Cute but absurd! The new boats are the fastest, most technologically advanced sailboats ever used in the Americas Cup with speeds in excess of 40 knots while they fly for the first time in history. They are radical designs that are still being developed and represent beyond the state of the art in sailboat design. Even with all that, the technology has allready started to trickle down with the 18' Flying Phantom foiler, using the single main foil AC hydrofoil configuration, already on the market. It uses a variation of the TNZ mainfoil that, for the first time in history combines a curved lifting foil with an "L" foil to allow altitude control similar to a traditional surface piercing foil.
There are more such foilers soon to be available from cartoppable to the California 45, which makes the "trickle down" from this AC among the most important in history.

 

.

The AC 72's can't be classed as ocean racers but they are inshore water racers. Why should they have to qualify by doing a 500 mile passage. Luna rossa and ETNZ have virtually done that every day practising in 30kn plus winds in the hauraki gulf gulf NZ. Dalton in a news item also was quoted as saying he wanted more wind so he could exceed 45knts boat speed entirely happy / confident his design could handle it / or to see if it could before the 2nd was launched.

Also the ISAF racing rules and safety regs state

3.6 Average wind will be determined over a period of five minutes.
3.7 Races will not be started in less than 5 knots of wind established over the entire course area. This limit may be higher if there is strong current in the racing area.
3.8 Races will not be started in excess of 30 knots. Once a match has been started and winds exceed 30 knots the race will continue unless the race management team is unable to safely manage racing. Athletes are reminded that the decisión to race, or to continue to race, is their sole responsibility.

ISAF sole responsibility wording. Athletes

The safety of a yacht and her crew is the sole and inescapable responsibility of the person in charge who must do his best to ensure that the yacht is fully found, thoroughly seaworthy and manned by an experienced crew who have undergone appropriate training and are physically fit to face bad weather. He must be satisfied as to the soundness of hull, spars, rigging, sails and all gear. He must ensure that all safety equipment is properly maintained and stowed and that the crew know where it is kept and how it is to be used. He shall also nominate a person to take over the responsibilities of the Person in Charge in the event of his incapacitation.

They dont have to race foiling if they not satisfied as to the soundness of hull, spars, rigging, sails and all gear and sail non foiling and / or if the conditions in their opinion are marginal and the other boat fails then they win don't they and he has made the right top call.

ISAF are only concerned with the race officials in smaller boats / vessels managing / umpiring ect safety.

With regard to the piver loss, correct me if im wrong he was not lost in the vessel he was going to attempt to race with as it was still being built and he sailed his 25 ft design in order to qualify by doing a 500 mile distance requirement. 25 ft was just a designer being over confident re his own design and in reality a 25 ft size vessel sailing in open seas in that period was fatal. If that requirement was not in force PIVOR would probobly be alive today.

It appears every body is concerned ETNZ is probably the only team that can sail these super expensive extreme boats.


I think it was doug who said they stuffed up the officials, as nobody thought a sailing vessel could foil on one foil and the rule was worded in such away to prevent it, but they over came it the teams and the designers.

and people are now saying it is a bit dangerous as they have inferior designers, equipement and crew sailing skills except ETNZ.

In stead of cancelling any thing, just award the cup to ETNZ by default.

 

Piver's 33' design Stiletto was already built and in England waiting, it had been sailed in the Crystal Trophy Race by him. He attempted qualifying in a borrowed boat of questionable build.

 

i want these foils to do 100 knots plus, but they have to be designed properly, its clear that as long as Doug Lord is going faster than anyone else, you will support any deathtrap, you have no responsibilty to anyone

 

The pictures of Peter Radclyffes boats are truly beautiful.
But then so are ancient artifacts and pottery.
Non of them are relevant to modern technology.

 

"ISAF sole responsibility wording. Athletes"

Non sense

And the coal miners dont have to work in the mine if they dont agree with the conditions.

Come on...you live in a fantasy world. Those sailors are professional sailors..on the payroll . They are coal miners. They have no choice but to do what they are told or they will be replaced by a new miner

The sailing programs are responsible to the sponsor...the coal mine owner.

The only higher authority that can protect the sailors are the race committee, organizers.

Of course we could add lawyers if the race committee refuses to take its responsibility seriously

 

The race committee has little bearing on the safety of the crews, they simply are the referee in a boxing match, not the ring side doctor.

The only "higher authority" that can protect anyone involved, is the integrity of the owners commissioning the project, the engineers and designers developing the craft and the builders executing the approved specifics of the plans.