34th America's Cup: multihulls!

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Are you certain you want an answer to this question?

    I think the key to your question might be intelligence ....
     
  2. xarax

    xarax Previous Member

    People that have a first hand knowledge are paid by Oracle, so I guess their testimony is not so "objective" ...:) People that have a second hand knowledge are probably just fans, ready to repeat ( = parrot )
    anything that has been said to them, to calm their fear there is some new cheating involved, and feed their loyalty. Do you believe fans ? I do not.

    I understand you have a hard time imaging a stability control system that is more or less automatic - otherwise you could had explained it to us-, but that does not mean that such a system, which does not need be "fancy" at all :) can NOT exist, or that it was NOT installed on board, does it ? It need not be an "altitude control system", of course, as you try to imagine, without much success, but a semi-automatic AoA self-adjusting system, using the real-time energy provided by the grinders, and a puppet "button pusher" "trimmer", just to make it legal under the AC72 rules...
    There were many comments on the drawings of a mechanism that was said it was provided by US Oracle to the measurers - I do not recall how you had explained its working... Now, we have a drawing, and even on this drawing there are different opinions, and no definite answer on the question of how automatic it is - what makes you believe that you could NOT had a hard time imagining an effective stability control system that TNZ engineers had not been able to do, all those years ?
    Dismissed ? Laughet at ? And by "a lot" of people ? Really ? THAT make me believe them ! :) If they are a lot, and they laugh , this means they are telling the truth and nothing but the truth ! HOW on earth I had not imagined THAT ? :)

    That does not sound like a first-hand testimony to me...:) Well, I see it Not in this way...Am I allowed to do so ? Is it legal ? :)

    You just repeat a possible scenario, or a fairy tale that you obviously need so desperately to believe in, that, to me at least, seems highly speculative, because it is not supported by the facts. And the facts tell us that any gradual improvement of the boat, and any gradual accumulation of knowledge by the crew, can not explain the SUDDEN leap in the upwind stability and speed of the US Oracle boat that we saw after the 11 race - miraculously, just in t, that is, the 11th hour ! Some people believe in miracles, even more improbable than this - I do not. Am I allowed to do so, or I am committing some kind of sin and I will be burned on fire ? :)
    If Ellison has such persuasive powers to his people, and he could sell such stories, he should better stop selling computer systems, and become a prophet or something ! :)

    So, they had just "fixed their trim issue" (sic) and they had started "upwind foiling" just like that, in one day ! Ouaou ! If prophet Ellison says they had solved the problem of upwind foiling we had not imagined that it will EVER be solved, either because it was sooo easy to be solved ( and TNZ crew members were so dumb they had not been able to solve it... although they were trying to solve it almost one more year ! ), or because they had received some divine, so kind help from above, I believe him ! I believe him ! God would nt help those lazy dogs, TNZ, he endorsed the "hard work" of US Oracle - so, no surprize "their confidence jumped"(sic), anybody s confidence would had jumped, if he had been miraculously transformed from a feather duster to a rooster ! :)

    PLEASE, tell me P Flados, do you really believe this scenario ? Are you ready to swear it describes anything else than a wishful thinking of yours ? Do you believe reality is just another fairy tale ? How old are you, man ?
    I would be ready to believe that things are much more complex, and far from "crystal clear", that we think - and that the Prophet and his first-hand servants are laughing right now at your innocent childish story with the happy end, or even at my suspicions about the stability control system they had used. Perhaps reality would be much more dark and dreadful than we think - and perhaps it would be better for us if we will never learn what had happened. Sailing was suppose to be something that had to do with air and water, not with money ( =$ ) and all the "high" moral values it comes with...

    Veeery CLEVER ! :) And so polite, too...:) I really enjoy such - how the moderator who <removed> part of my post had said ? Oh, yes, "ideas regarding the boats, technology, etc " Oh my Larry !
    I almost fell pity for Oracle fans ! You people need to do something about the traumatic experience you had, with the suspension during the first races, and then the relief rally which created this huuuge bubble inside your brains ! When it will burst - because, trust me on this, it will burst, just as all bubbles do some day - you will be confronted with a huuuge identity problem.
     
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    I am no longer paid by Oracle in any capacity.

    Most of the money involved was NOT FROM ORACLE, and most of the money was NOT FROM LARRY ELLISON, either.

    You seem to have a greater dislike of Oracle, and/or Larry, than you do of the America's team .....

    This is not a 'my database is better than your database, because mine is cheaper' is it? Because it sure sounds like a misguided IT salesman angry at Oracle, because you get smaller bonuses ....

    Ironically, properly configured, the Oracle DB is the best price for the money - yes, I have been tightly associated with Oracle DB, and before that Microsoft products.

    Would you allow the rest of us to move back to the 'America's Cup' races? And away from bashing 'ORCL?'
     
  4. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I thought the independent people with first hand knowledge are the measurer's and they are looking at the boats ever day!
    PS I'm a (was)sybase man myself
     
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    You mean you were? Or, is Sybase still one step ahead of the undertaker - MS?

    :)

    I had heard they made a comeback, and that is a good thing, competition - real competition - is always a good thing.

    And without real competition, America's team would not have done well, much less as well as they did.

    ETNZ PUSHED THE HECK out of America's team. They pushed hard. Both teams worked hard, and both teams competed with all they had.

    I just find it ironic that so many New Zealand fans were angry that America's Kiwi team did so well against the Emirates Team .... New Zealand.

    wayne
     
  6. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I think the man that did it (RC) is/was a Kiwi they love to hate
     
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    That explains a LOT .... a LOT ....
     
  8. xarax

    xarax Previous Member

    You seem to be so sure for this, just as you are so sure US Oracle had not used any stability control system... :)
    Well, you are wrong in all counts !
    I do not dislike Oracle, at least not yet : just look at :
    http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts...n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
    I do not dislike "Larry", who, at the end of the day, is the ONLY super-rich man who had offered me something :)( those beautiful boats and heart-breaking races I had enjoyed so much ) - but I am not willing to kowtow to him...:), or to be a "friend", an "applauding employee", a servant, or a slave ! My blood is still red, not blue, and I am not even a "Sir" of Hers Majesty the Queen of New Zealand :) ( New Zealand, you know, antipodes - literally ! )
    AND I do not dislike the American team members - who were GREAT when they were losing, but are so unbelievably and unreasonably <removed> now they had won ! A man is judged of how he behaves when he loses AND when he wins - especially when he wins...
     
  9. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Well, you do not represent a good winner, or loser.

    Your posts have been confrontational and very zealous. Makes me think you might not be a Greek. Yes, they can be emotional, I love that in them, but they are very logical.

    Currently, I have no ties to Oracle, nor have I ever been beholding to Oracle. But, the US team (Not Oracle's team) fought hard, and came back from behind to win. And I see no indication that the ETNZ team threw the race .... none. And I find it more difficult to believe that the US team cheated, under the watch of ETNZ and the referees.

    Can it be done. Yes. But, easily done, not in America.

    And the interview I watched, the team congratulated the ETNZ team on their 'hard work.' And 'there are no losers in this. Only winners.'

    And my family threw off the King under George the III, a long time ago.

    Something other than the race is a 'burr under your saddle,' and if you do not get the burr out from under your saddle, you will continue to ride a very uncomfortable life ....
     
  10. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    redreuben redreuben

    Time to unsubscribe this thread I think.
     
  11. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    I think he unsubscribed himself. We can go back to how this advances yachts.

    Maybe not for most of US, but at least for some of US. I hope to be in that small percentage who can afford these kinds of innovations on their cruising yachts.

    I don't think I want the 40+kts, but it would be nice to outrun some of the gasoline outboards on occasion with a sail drive instead of gasoline.

    imagine the looks on their faces ....
     
  12. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Currently, sailing boats are completing the circumnavigation in around 45 days vs fuel powered in around 60 days.

    I think that is a HUGE incentive to try sailing, for the next generation. If we can get them off of their phones and outside long enough to enjoy the outdoors.
     
  13. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I think the fastest freighter UK to Australia is still a sailing vessel from back in the day.
     
  14. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    That is amazing.

    How much we 'seem' to have gone forward, but there was still SO MUCH knowledge back 'then.'

    I love learning, and maybe love knowledge too much, but I am fascinated by how we can still make 'traditional' sailing vessels better and faster.
     

  15. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    back to automation and sailing
    Does anyone think you could automate an upwind autopilot to drive better than the best helm?
    For anyone that has crewed with the whole range of drivers, i'd say no
     
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