34th America's Cup: multihulls!

Luckily the AC fits my present phase of working all night.

I think NZ$ have the port start in the 1st race today so It might be all over
early today.
Then Larry can sool his lawyers onto the IJ

 

Yes, it also depends on the geometry.
For example, cavitation can occur behind a cut-off vertical strut at zero AoA.

 

Not so sure speeds would be enough lower that the layman would notice.

45 in 20 is 2.25x wind speed in boats purportedly designed for a 45 knot top speed

If the predicted wind speed was a 10 knot with over 15 very unlikely you might see much closer to 3x wind speed for 25+ on 10 and 40+ on 15 ...

30 knots will give the drama of the spray etc. Most fan could not tell the difference between 30 and 45 knots from a photo or video.

This sort of places Chris 249's views and foilers in the same corner of the room. Write a rule intended to limit the top speeds of the boats to 40 knots in your average local conditions + 20% and you should have exciting and relatively safe racing in the low to mid 30's.

 

Moi: ... Gee, I wonder why Oracle had then favored a top wind speed of 20 knots; something to with their boat otherwise self-destructing perhaps?

I was laying a carpet at the time and may have missed something Doug, what are you referring to?

My remark above is by the way a little joke in reference to Daiquiri's revelations, in case you think I was being serious.

Team Oracle apparently fretted about ETNZ's performance in higher wind at the time, and were trying to turn the repercussions of Simpson's death to their own advantage?

 

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Some time after the initial question about wind limits and Barkers answer someone else asked Jimmy about why now-I don't remember his exact wording but it made sense to me. You can go to the "live" thread and click on the first url and you can find the press conference and hear exactly what he said.

 

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They're doing 46 knots(or so) now-safely-why reduce it? For cost savings maybe change the rig to a reefable squaretop with a wingmast. Hydroptere did 65 knots with the same foils she did 30 with-and reefable soft sails-that bears looking into.
I'm not for much "de-spectacularizing" of the boat or course......

 

In one of the pressers this week (two days ago?) JS said that the boats were into the challenge of cavitation and control at the speeds they can reach under the current rule. He used 50 MPH as the speed number.

IMO retaining foils for the future (popular) will mean limiting speeds with either wind limits (not popular) or a rule that provides more control options so the transition speeds can be approached and exceeded somewhat more safely might be viable.

If that path is chosen, the safety of the crew in case of control failure or small human error must be addressed and be a very prominent part of protocol development. The last thing sailing, the Cup, and foiling needs is an "extremely unsafe" label rather than an "extremely exciting" label. Also (IMO) a return to displacement boats or monohulls will bring back the "extremely boring" label for all but sailing and match racing diehards.

In consideration of cost concerns perhaps a goal of limiting boat speeds to the low 40's would be the next step forward. Increasing the target boat speeds to close on the cavitation challenge would come after control systems were more mature.

Sailing as a sport (not this AC) has been quite conservative and this AC has opened some eyes and provided new paths to explore. I'd hate to see that lost by trying to move too fast and tripping when there is potential for loss of life. No pickle dish, even the America's Cup is worth that.

R

 

...

So wha's the headline in the New York Times today?

....


Kimball Livingston today has an update on his site but it is a short one:

Seems to me you could have spent five more minutes and embellished on this a little, Kimball.

I know that's Larry's little boat behind Aotearoa (I spent several days berthed near his big boat in Valencia, and oddly enough she crossed my path at sea a year or two later, approaching La Manche - you know the French think it's ridiculous to call it anything else - one fine autumn evening as she was headed to Germany or Holland to be sold).

But what have you got Kimball? Is Larry confined to his stateroom, unable to sleep, wandering the decks, returning his plate untouched to the three cooks, wracked with a combination of separation anxiety, and a feeling of impotence despite all his dollars spent to guarantee performance?

And what is this San Francisco tradition since 2010 you refer to? All the complications thrown in the way of holding the race, ever since Wham Bam Muchas Gracias Mam in Valencia?

Torture. You say.

Has it got anything to do with wind limits?

lol

 

34th AC

Editorial by Brian Hancock from the front page of SA:

AC Perspective

OK let’s face it, most of us have at one time or other criticized the current America’s Cup and in some cases for quite good reasons. I think now that the cup is almost over it’s time we take a hard look at what’s been accomplished and how it fits into the bigger picture. Let’s start by agreeing that while Larry Ellison and his team may be close to losing the Cup to the Kiwi’s, they in fact have turned out winners. This is especially true for Ellison. They have successfully, and for once and for all, brought the world’s oldest sporting trophy into the modern age. Those AC72 spaceships ripping up San Francisco Bay were nothing short of spectacular and for the first time in many years I was immensely proud to be a sailor. For too many years it was embarrassing to show non-sailing friends sailing coverage on TV. Frankly it was dull and boring, but that’s all changed.

To innovate you also have to be a pioneer and Larry Ellison has proven over and over again that he is capable of being a pioneer. His own quote, “When you innovate, you’ve got to be prepared for everyone telling you that you’re nuts,” says it all. Yes we criticized his ambition and like every successful salesman he over estimated how many entries would show up and how much money the event would bring into the local economy, but his contribution is simple; he has placed sailing squarely among the very best sports to watch on television. I am giving Ellison the credit here, not the great commentators or the awesome filming and the amazing computer graphics. Ellison brought us spectacular boats and some unbelievable sailing. Without their majesty the best TV coverage would be bland.

The last time the America’s Cup was in the charge of New Zealand they managed it with a steady hand and we can only hope and expect that they will do the same again. Grant Dalton has been explicit that the AC72’s are too big and too expensive and he is leaning toward some kind of super fast multihull or a smaller monohull. SpeedDream perhaps? We already have a prototype that has proven the concept and we are more than happy to work with the Kiwis to refine the idea. If Dalton wants to go back to monohulls he is going to have to come up with something quite spectacular and frankly flying keels will be spectacular. Let’s see what happens. Dalton is an old mate from my Whitbread days so I may just have to put a word in his ear.

Before the dust settles on this AC let’s once again give a nod to Team Oracle USA and the huge strides in boat speed and the exciting sailing they have brought to us over the last three years. Ellison is to be congratulated for his bold innovation. The AC72’s are simply extraordinary sailboats. They are indeed the J-boats of a modern era and perhaps like the original J-boats they are destined to disappear. Sad, but probably true. When the final race for this America’s Cup is sailed it may well be the last time we see these amazing machines out sailing and that has to be a sad thought. – Brian Hancock.

 

Why ? I guess that the dagger boards / foils could well be longer / deeper than the presently used ones.

 

Well, it's just my personal preference, but for me sailing is an outdoor sport and the task for sailors and engineers in such an event (which claims to be the top of the sailing world) should be to make the fastest possible boat for match racing in real world conditions and not in a laboratory. Wouldn't it be far more interesting to watch the most elaborated boats race on different days in whatever conditions mother nature supplies (within reasonable limits, no hurricane... ). It should come down to seamanship, the correct judging of the conditions and setting up your race engine accordingly!
With these ridiculous wind speed limits it is a purely artificial event without any connection to the real world - like cart racing in a hall.
With these outrageous budgets and the significant preparation time available in an event like the AC, I expect something really revolutionary to emerge, not a million dollar toy only safely usable in very restricted conditions.
As for the actual boats, what would be the speed penalty for the use of conventional (reefable) sails? I can't imagine that it would be so significant that the foils wouldn't work any more... .

 

I tend to agree, but (there is always a but). The AC match needs to be concentrated over a short time. The chances of having a wide range of conditions during that scheduled time is a major unknown. If the rule demands boats that can sail nearly no matter what, the boat that happens to be "right" for that week or so is going to win. This changes the AC from a challenge Cup to a weather lottery.

I would assume that the Club's annual regatta would held at a time and place that provides the most reliably good sailing. The challenger is forced to optimize for that as much as possible to be competitive.

It is a challenging puzzle to be sure.

R

 

Be aware some youtube links don't work.

This one works in Greece and Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmbRX6EQ5Tg

 

34th AC

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San Fran Bay IS the real world-many racing classes have wind limits like the A Class cats and others I can't think of. I don't like them one bit, though, but I understand what happened here better thanks to Slavi and Randy( see their last few posts)[Daiquiri and RHough]: the improvement in the design max speed increased a lot between when the class was conceived and now. So much so that the original design wind speed of 33 knots could have been dangerous.
I don't think you'll see these limits in the future because the rigs are likely to be reefable and the speeds -I hope-will be in the same range or a little faster than they are now.
This was the start of an America's Cup revolution-see Brian Hancoks editorial above-- and I believe that if Dalton wins it will be unlikely that he will do what he said a while back and go to back to leadbellies.
This has been the best America's Cup I have ever seen and the whole package is a stunning improvement on the Cups of the past.
I'm Optimistic for the future even if the TNZer's win....
Go 17ers!!

 

Carn the Realm (formerly Dominion) of New Zealand!