34th America's Cup: multihulls!

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    34th AC

    From Bertelli in an interview here: http://www.vsail.info/category/americas-cup/

    Gazzetta dello Sport: But Iain Murray, the Regatta Director, stated the other day that he had general approval from all the teams when he presented the list of 37 recommendations that would improve safety after the Artemis incdent.
    Patrizio Bertelli: I’m only asking Murray to provide one document, just one, where it is stated that Luna Rossa accepted the rule on the rudders and the one on boat weight. Let them provide it. It doesn’t exist. If they say this, they do it in bad faith. Not only that: after the press conference he held there in San Francisco, he sent Max Sirena and Grant Dalton a letter to apologize for what he had said. There is an email to prove it.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ================
    I found it-sorry I missed it earlier. The key things are these to me:
    1) consensus="general agreement or concord",
    2) The defining statements, in my opinion are those made in the recent press conference,
    3) The Regatta Directors recommendations after the Oracle crash were generally ignored-this time he determined that the recommendations would be law. TNZ/ LR lawyers got involved when they saw an opportunity to call a couple or three of the safety recommendations "class rule changes" in order to, hopefully, cause havoc with Oracle. They failed because Oracle can sail legally now. We know that the intention was to cause havoc because the Regatta Director allowed asy boards. And we know now that LR and TNZ have legal foils under the 37 safety recommendations and could race at any time. If the Regatta Director says it is a safety recommendation then thats what it is, period. Lawyers can screw that up and the Cup with it but I think they are full of horsemanure. If the teams aren't willing to let the Regatta Director run the show, then go home. The IJ will decide sometime, I guess.
    ---
    The weight thing applies to all boats equally.
    =============
    I hope Murray sticks to his guns because having a single person in charge seems like a key management requirement as this fiasco demonstrates. To the extent there have been foul ups or mistakes, I think the position that should count is the Regatta Directors position, particularly when all the boats meet all the requirements now, as I understand it. What he says goes-period.(I hope)
    ==================
    What Luna Rosa is doing is despicable, in my opinion-I hope it causes them to lose any chance at the Cup-they might as well go home now.
    Arrivederci, Sirena and Bertelli!
    =====
    This mess has some good news for TNZ: her competition is in complete disarray and she gets to win a race. Thats great for the pioneer of 72' foiling cats! Of course, she has no chance against Oracle........
    ===
    It sure will be interesting to see what the jury does Monday(if anything).....
     
  3. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    And add into that mix, anyone with more than 2 brain cells and who can think objectively and logically and spot diatribe from a thousand yards in the dark!

    His postings are nothing but abuse.
     
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  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    34th AC---racing!

    News Flash! Team New Zealand wins the first race of the 2013 America's Cup!
    They should be proud, I guess. (Of course, it won't actually happen until tomorrow...........unless they quit too.)
    I wonder if they're taking their lawyers out for a ride?

    They might actually look like this: (picture #1)
    But it won't look like this: (picture#2)
     

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  5. jamez
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    jamez Senior Member

    Originally Posted by CT 249
    Once again showing that you have very little to offer except abuse and insults. Well done, Gary.

    I think your racist attitudes are embarrassing to many of us from the South Pacific.

    Does the term 'Tongue in Cheek' have any meaning to you people?
     
  6. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Yes, but when there's such a long stream of abusive posts then it seems like something other than tongue in cheek.
     
  7. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    As CT has noted, it is consistent pathological behaviour that is exhibited. As such, it is far far removed from any "humour" in any shape or form.
     
  8. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Well,Doug, if you ignore the fact that articles on consensus state quite clearly that the word does NOT mean unanimous agreement (which is what IM claimed he had); if you can ignore the fact that a "general agreement" to use your term does NOT mean one that covers all the details or all the specific details (look it up) and if you can ignore the fact that the RD said that there was agreement on the "majority" of recs (NOT ALL the recs); then we get down to the fact that the formal written document was at the very best ambiguous, and that's a stretch.

    But I bet that if you asked most people what "consensus" on a "majority" meant, 99 out of 100 would say it was something other than complete agreement on everything, which is what IM is now claiming. And therefore the Kiwis' obvious belief that the details of the recs were still being developed (which they made fully public in the document you linked) appears perfectly reasonable and the abuse being thrown by you at two of the challengers seems to be way over the top.
     
  9. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Anyway, back on topic.

    The AC starts this weekend. So far we've seen the sail-by and speed challenge cancelled due to strong winds (although the organisers claimed that it was "crucial" that the boats could sail in strong winds); we've had a thrilling sailpast of a schooner from the 1800s and a bunch of powerboats; and then there's a band playing that is later the support act for a better-known band that will cost you $7 bucks to see in a downtown gig. Oh, and of course there will be no racing.

    But if that's not enough excitement, the call from IM is that this may be the last such event ever;

    “I think it’s fair to say with this America’s Cup, the geography and the natural amphitheater we have here in San Francisco, the machines in the AC72s, the crews that we have, the skill and preparations of these crews, the complexity of these boats, the speed of these boats, I would suggest that you’re probably in line to see some of the most amazing sailing and racing that’s ever happened in the world.

    With the complexity and everything associated with it, it may never happen again."


    This could be a watershed moment that would do a great deal for our sport. We may finally realise that sports become strong when there is less difference between the gear a grass-roots competitor and the pros use; when there is an emphasis on maintaining accessibility and economy, and that classes that get big sustainable fleets (Formula 18, Hobie 16, ORCi and IRC, hell even the J Class has a bigger fleet than the AC boats!) are the way to go, and that the AC works when it takes its traditional role as the big end of the inshore mono mainstream.

    We may start to see the emphasis going away from a few billionaires and back to the common sailors, which would be a wonderful thing. After all, for the buck, hassle and complexity no sailboat is fast compared to most other sporting vehicles - even the highly restricted Tour de France bicycles go quicker than an AC72!

    Saying that reminds me of what Nat Herreshoff wrote in 1929, writing to Francis and saying that he was discouraging Commondore Munroe from developing a planing sharpie proa; "I tell Munroe bicycles, autos and speed launches have taken the thrill of speed out of people, and that an "outboard" would make circles around him.”
     
  10. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    I guess Footrot Flats type humour is racist to you overly serious people, meaning Ad Hoc (good joke about whales and Greenpeace, ho, ho) CT and sensitive patriot Michael.
    You know nothing about my life.
    But calling me racist is despicable.
    I may be a number of things but racism doesn't come into it.
    Or are you so thin skinned that no one is to poke fun at our various (Aus/NZ)vernacular.
    You uptight PC boys must be delightful company at a party.
    Now, back to nitpicking endlessly the he said ... and he said.
    Riveting.
     
  11. michaeljc
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    michaeljc Senior Member

    Humour does not export. Anyone that has been around knows that.

    I'm done with this subject until some real news emerges. Thanks to those here for sharing the technical issues. Some fascinating stuff is still to come up, for sure.
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    It wasn't the strine that I objected to; it was the imputation that the US was more likely to cheat, and praise of people just 'cause they are A/NZedders.

    If you are going to characterise a nation of 350 million individuals as being more likely to be dishonest than Kiwis or Aussies, what can you expect? There's a lot of other places where you have insulted people from other nations as a group - for example in your stuff about Light Brigade where you characterised British and US yachts of an earlier era as boring, conformist and meant only for status symbols.

    If you don't want to be called out for stereotyping then try not stereotyping.

    We're probably much more fun at a party than someone like you who abuses people most of the time and thinks anyone with different tastes is a prat. Y'know, you could try respecting other people even when they have different tastes and different values.
     
  13. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    I'm done with it too, unless the perpetuating doug lord can give a justifiable reason for ETNZ's "disingenuous performance reasons" in refuting the rudder changes... That is, keeping the rule as it was always written well before the boats were built... Good luck with that mate...
     
  14. jamez
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    jamez Senior Member

    There used to be a saying last century about the Americas Cup ...Brittania rules the waves, but America waives the rules. This was not intended to malign the entire US population, but was a dig at vested interests with something to gain by keeping it at the NYYC. Throughout its history the AC has got to be one of the most unsportsmanlike sporting events ever devised. Good to see some things never change.

    Don't shoot the messenger, but actually they were (you may not agree). Can you explain how an honest critique of a particular style of boat can be construed as an general insult to the populations of those countries?

    You might like to reflect on your last sentence and spare the rest of us your self-righteous indignation.
     

  15. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    Americans aren't dishonest
    but some involved in the AC have had a reputation for well over 100 years thats says different.
     
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