34th America's Cup: multihulls!

you forgot
Helmed young Australia and won every start at the AC in NZ

meaning not a Cat sailor

 

Glenn Ashby
an accomplished windsurfer, you really are making this stuff up CT

 

They already had to make a Federal exemption to the Jones act to let the boats use their own tenders ( engaged in commerce...lawyers). They should also have exempted the USCG responsibility.

 

I said Gashby was a competent windsurfer, and so he is.

I've watched him windsurf between A Class races at the Forster Wildcat regatta and chatted about windsurfing with him.He's competent.

What do you know about windsurfing and Glenn, can I ask???

 

Ok for you, slowly and from the top:

Then Doug enters stage left:

My reply to Doug:

Now your wise and sagacious comment:

Doug’s argument is another logical fallacy, similar to the one you made earlier yourself. There’s no reason the astute gentleman behind the GB challenge was not well informed. Direct experience is not the only way to knowledge. In fact it’s often a poor route because a lot of observations based on direct experience and intuition are counter intuitive.

So for example you implied earlier that you completed a 4 year NA degree. In studying for your qualification for example, how much did you actually learn about ships without having to have hands on experience? You’d also be very aware how counter intuitive a lot of NA can be.

 

Mike

You could of course take Doug’s comment to its logical conclusion.

How many posters here, especially those with extreme bias and distaste for anything other than their own views, have sailed on an AC 72: a large foiling multihull and extensively?.....since unless one has, ergo, one cannot comment upon such matters. No first hand experince and all that...

 

I'm afraid I'm with Mike Johns on this one. I worked on the Pioneer probe to Venus, and to my knowledge none of the team had ever flown to Venus Tacit knowledge is great, but it's not the only form of knowledge there is. And I'm also with Sir Keith. This project is about a year ahead of itself.

Please don't go all freaky-deaky about mono vs. multi and other religious topics. A proper AC boat is whatever the rich guys that organize the event decide it is. It's pretty clear that Russell & Co tried for the biggest, hairiest boat they could fit in a SF Bay course. Then ETNZ cracked the no-foiling rule and the boats just got mondo hairier. 40+ kt closing speeds at the windward mark? Crews dancing from one hull to another, leading to the first AC helmsman to go overboard since 1901? Have you thought about the consequences of loss of control (helmsman MOB, component failure, hitting a floating object -- the Corps of Engineers hauls 1200 tons of junk out of the Bay every year) and a collision at speed? Visualize a fur ball of netting, mylar, carbon fiber fragments and injured humanity in murky, 60 degree water. Terrific TV, but not what the sport needs.

I spent a career working with high-risk, high-consequence systems and the secret to survival is small steps and frequent reviews. Great leaps often lead to face plants. I just pray that they pull it off, but my calibrated intuition is that prayer is the predominate element of their risk management.

Earl

 

Earl
Yes afraid is the term alright. It takes a bit of courage to stick your head over the parapet on this thread and a lot of good commentators have been discouraged from any sensible discussion. You are accused of a crime somewhere between Pouting at the low end to being a rabid ignorant anti multihull bigot at the other.


One worrying aspect if and when the racing actually starts is a high speed collision which could be quite catastrophic. I too hope they pull it off but the risk by any analysis is extreme.

 

The irony wasn't lost on me either

 

34th AC

=================
My full quote..... I never questioned Sir Keiths right to his opinion as you two(Johns and Hoc) appear to have questioned mine(and other AC 34 supporters)-I asked why Sir Keith's opinion should carry any more weight than other well known AC participants.

The referenced quote from Sir Keith, head of the UK syndicate:


"I pulled the GB team out because it wasn't viable on a number of fronts but safety was one of them,…." He called the class “….dangerous boats to sail with minimal control, hit a big wave and that is it…..”

 

40kt closing speed is actually quite tame in racing multihulls - even I've had that experience. 60 knots would be a better estimate. But I don't worry about the windward mark, by then - unless it is really good racing - the two boats will be at least a boat length apart

I worry about the prestart when the boats can be going in any direction. I cannot think of another race that starts that way - imagine F1 racing with the cars pointing different ways. And no brakes. Bit like speedway I guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_speedway

I also find it bizarre that at each tack and gybe the helmsman lets go of the wheel and runs 30ft across the boat to grab the new wheel before hitting anyone

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

No! no ones questioning your right to your opinion Doug. That's a bit of a twist.

Read your quote! you question his credibility.

But his comments were well before two boats were wrecked and numerous capsizes occured. And as I said maybe he would have changed his tune if he had known the course was to be mollycoddled wrt weather conditions.

 

Actually, Sir Keith's opinion should be given significant weight precisely because he is neither a participant nor invested heavily the technology.

High-risk activities are vulnerable to a phenomenon sociologists call "confirmation bias." In spaceflight it's called the "go disease" and pilots know it as "get-home-itis." It's the very human tendency of people who very much want something to happen to interpret ambiguous evidence in the most positive light. It caused the loss of two Shuttles and their crews, was a significant factor in the loss of the Deepwater Horizon drill rig in the Gulf, and has led to innumerable aircraft accidents. I'm afraid (again ) that I see a lot of this surrounding this event, even without considering the titanic ego of the head guy, the money at issue, the politics, and all the other overt pressure to proceed no matter what.

Earl

 

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a one boat length cushion if I was going 40+ kt and the boat in front me capsized or pitchpoled during a windward gate bearaway. A "crash gybe" while foiling? I don't think we've seen anybody practice that.

Plus the windward gate is very close to the entrance to the Bay, a factor in any rescue if an ebb tide is running (although somebody posted on SA that "most" races would take place in flood tide conditions.)


Earl

 

This website is littered with such "my blood sweat and tears" emotive biased reasoning and do not like cold hard facts getting in the way of their "dreams". The AC, as you point out, is no different.

Nicely said