33rd America's Cup

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Guillermo, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    I like the GGYC thing: Guillermo Gefaell Yacht Club....:D
     
  2. TimClark
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    TimClark Senior Member

    Finally got the hydrostatics working...
    LOD-27.4m
    LOA(Including Sprit)- 32.2
    Beam-5 m
    Draft- 6.5 m
    Displacement- 22.9 tonnes
    J-10.6 m
    Sprit Length- 4.8 m

    Anything else?

    TC
     
  3. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    That and 200 million or so Euros will make you a challenger!! :D :D
     
  4. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    " 'We are very pleased by the decision as it enables everyone to focus on getting the cup back on track quickly,' BMW Oracle Racing chief executive Russell Coutts said in a statement.

    The GGYC argued that Desafio Espanol's status of official challenger — which allowed it to negotiate the disputed format of the next America's Cup — is illegal. The ruling means that the Americans have the right to sail in a head-to-head series against Alinghi in July 2008, but they appear to prefer that the competition is open to more challengers.

    'We will immediately endeavor to meet with the other challengers to mutually agree a fair set of rules negotiated with all the other teams,' Coutts said."
    International Herald Tribune, Nov 27, 2007

    Taken at face value, they want a valid competition with multiple challengers. If the proposed new design formulae are acceptable to GGYC, 2009 might not be impossible.
     
  5. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    That'd be great, but we all know it isn't going to work out that way at all. Big L, fresh from his ego pumping court victory, is going to lay his own particular brand of wood on good ol' Ernesto and extract as many rich guy redaction’s from the Big E as possible before Big E gets all huffy and strides out of the meeting room in a snit.

    Some days later, after the minions get to bashing each other around, the big boys will sit down again and it will happen all over. Sometime out in the future, after Big L reminds Big E of his subordinate position as it applies to the court read, Deed of Gift…( in spite of Big E's position as Cup Defender) they'll finally agree to the ultimate big shot ego expression and race each other, without any other participants included, in humongous cats. Big E will lose and Big L will haul the Cup back to the Golden Gate YC where all, supposedly, will be good again.

    Trouble with all that crap is that nobody really gives a hoot about the darn Cup anymore as it has become one colossal circus of rich guy stupidity which has little, to no, connection to the regular guy who sails.

    Eventually, the sponsors will leave the building and the egos will putter about the dank hallways of their castles with no audience for their pleasure.

    Louis Vuitton left the building and it's only the beginning of the moneyed exodus from the so-called sport of the America's Cup sailing.

    Does that sound negative? I think it sounds pragmatic and grounded.
     
  6. RHough
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    RHough Retro Dude

    Ah grasshopper, it has always been so. :D

    The attraction of the AC has always been watching the rich, big egos duke it out in boats that have little relation to what a regular guy might sail. In fact, it has only been recently that regular guys could afford to sail anything bigger than what they could build themselves.

    Now, as you rightly point out, regular guys that race don't waste their time thinking about the cup. I'm only obsessed with it because I don't have a boat to sail at the moment.
     
  7. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    One who would watch AC for the sport of sailing, would watch daytime soap operas for life lessons. It is certainly a battle of the financial ego Titans. Fascinating isn't it.

    And Chris, if you find it so repugnant, why do you know so much about it? Could it be you can't take your eyes off of it either.
     
  8. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    Definitely. AC billionaires make even the maxi owners seem like ordinary guys (well, sort of :rolleyes: ). Soap opera with a few races by boats that remind me of fashion models; beautiful but fragile, not good for much outside their narrow window of performance, but sure nice to watch!
     
  9. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Something interesting here:

    "THE AC90: SURVIVOR OR CASUALTY?
    by Julian Everitt, Yacht designer

    Will the newly proposed 90-foot America’s Cup class, arguably either a wonder boat that will bring unprecedented spectator interest, or a hack job that is both overly compromised and ill-suited for the job, survive the new alliance between Alinghi and BMW Oracle Racing. The American team has demonstrated a disposition to leave their mark on all matters thus far, yet they were kept out of the loop during the creation of this new class. Here's a vote for them to start with a clean sheet of paper.

    The proposed boats will be very light, more like Volvo 70’s or Open 60’s than the former V5 IACC which they replace, but is this good for match racing? The answer is almost certainly no. They may hammer downwind at over 20 knots compared to the somewhat sedate 10 knot pace of the current AC designs, but this will make them just super expensive ‘pressure-chasers’. Finding just a tiny bit more wind pressure will increase boat speed enormously, negating the tactical effects of wind shifts and ruling out effective defensive sailing, which is what match racing is supposed to be about."

    It’s as if the new rule has been generated by a completely mindless group of individuals....."

    Read the full thing at: http://sailingscuttlebutt.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=5572
     
  10. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    Well, being a boat guy... it's hard to avoid. The boat press does cover the action, but it's not very well pumped in the mainstream media. So, it's limited to an iconic desparation effort within the boating world and little more.

    I don't care that some trophy has been passed around for a long time. The boats are non-functional when you look at what is rolling down the coast of Africa right now, or parked in the harbor in Brazil. The sport is not improved by the engagement and the money would be much better spent funding a consistent youth sailing program worldwide, so that the sport could actually have a shot at survival.

    Truth be told, I haven't watched one frame of the AC broadcasts since 1988 and don't intend to start it up again. The process is so filled with nonsense, that the folks have to dream up new ways to make it look palatable. Unfortunately, it's still not getting there for me.

    And the upcoming Olympic thing on the water won't be much better. Imagine a world class competitor slipping on the boat ramp, taking a mouthfull of the ocean in the Chinese waters where the races will be held and getting so sick with intestinal bugs that she could not compete for several months... Could there be anything more disgusting when you are trying to sell the activity to the kids of the world? I can only guess what the sailboard entrants are thinking when they dress to enter the water with their rigs.

    Jeeezus! America's Cup courtroom BS and Polluted Olympic sailing.... is there a serious disconnect within the powers that be in sailing, or what?

    Rant Over
     
  11. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    You know, there is not much there I can argue with.
    I can ask...what would be more fun than building a cup boat?
    How about a budget like that?
     
  12. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Budget, sure.

    Cup boat.... No friggin' chance. There are dozens of better sailboats out there of all sizes and keel persuasions, much less what could be done with an amazing multihull on that budget.

    Still, I'm called to work for the kids of this planet before they are so completely dis-associated from what the adults are doing that they all, in unison, declare emancipation. You want a movement that will gain serious traction for all adults with kids of their own, as well as the kids themselves... spread the amalgamated AC budget around the planet and use it to encourage young people to learn to sail, to learn the joy, to learn the sport without the BS... now that is a force with which to be reckoned.

    NO BS AC haggle is ever going to come close that energyas it applies the sport of sailing.

    When the rich fools are finished with their haggle you guys let me know.
     
  13. riggertroy
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    riggertroy Senior Member

    There seem to be a good number of young people in my country that think the AC is great and aspire to be part of it all.

    The only reason that there is the "Budget" available is because those with the money want it spent on the AC.

    I do agree Chris that it would be great to spread the amount of money spent on the AC around to help young people learn to sail. But where will that money come from as I cannot see the current sponsors spending the sums that they are currently on developing youth sailing skills
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
  14. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    (Scuttlebutt)
    "WORRYING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CUP
    by Bruno Troublé
    Since July, I remained silent, speechless after the America's Cup we all love
    so much, was hijacked. I am shocked to see the defender sailing WITH the
    challengers (no more of this great mystery at the start of the first final
    race) and at ACM naming the judges, umpires, and committees with no reference
    to ISAF. I am sad to see the America's Cup slowly but surely drifting to
    become just another sporting event with no class, no respect for tradition,
    and where money - lots of money - is the only word used by the organizers.

    I am furious to see the 90-foot box rule. Anyone involved in the America's
    Cup knows that the best match racing boats do NOT accelerate from 10 to 20
    knots when luffing 10 degrees downwind. They are STUCK in the water the same
    way the 12s and the IACC were. Do not confuse these fast-accelerating sleds
    with the impressive looking J's boats, as the defender has stated.

    These new boats might be great racers if you have 30+ boats on the starting
    line, but they will be hopeless for match racing. You will need two TV sets
    to watch the race once they round the weather mark! We know this in France,
    as the 60 feet multihull racing circuit died because of the differences in
    speed between the boats. Looking at those races was so boring!

    The America's Cup is the passion of my life after spending 30 years living
    with her (skipper in '77 to '83 and then with Louis Vuitton from '83 until
    today). But now Louis Vuitton is out, for the time being. It is sad and the
    Cup will miss this great partner. Being the ONLY permanent body around the
    Cup for 25 years, LV brought a lot to the event by making it bigger over the
    years, yet doing it with class and respect. (Remember the A's Cup Jubilee in
    Cowes!) They wait and see, hoping that the Old Lady will realize where some
    people want to take her.

    The court decision will force the defender to go back to a more realistic and
    balanced event. The Challengers will be listened to - hopefully they will
    gain some more freedom - and ACM might come up with some good ideas without
    taking over the whole event. This would be a trail in the right direction, if
    only those that are on it will walk."
     

  15. RHough
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    RHough Retro Dude

    Guillermo has been hinting (with two good cites) that the AC90 is probably NOT the way to go for the AC.

    To stick the boats to the water (as they should be for good match racing) look at the numbers for a 90 ft LWL:

    D/L = 246 is moderate and will surf in a gale, but not in light air. For a 90ft LWL that puts the displacement at 180 tons not 23.

    With a 180 ton boat, you need 5,000 sq ft of sail for SA/D of 14+ and 7,000 sq ft for SA/D of 20+

    Anyone want to take a crack at a 90 ft LWL, 180 ton, 7,000 sq ft match race design? It would be a brute!
     
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