30 foot mcgruber 2012 survival sailboat

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by d lester, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Ah, the unsinkable yacht request. These are only desired by those who have very limited understanding of yacht design and more importantly those that have very little actual sea time. As a result, they assume the perfect craft would be unsinkable. In reality, a sound design with a skilled skipper and crew can manage just about anything. I've personally, sailed through 5 hurricanes and never once was I aboard a ship, all where yachts, all but one under 50'. Yep, on a few of those occasions we took a beating, had ship board damage and injuries among the crew. This is a pretty normal expectation if you are in huge seas, with the boat rolling from rail to rail and green water washing the full length of the deck, submerging the pilothouse completely. Naturally, we took precautions, storm planks on the posts, dogged down everything that moved, etc. and immediately went to a 2 hour, then a 1 hour watch rotation. Look, you can survive through will and seamanship or you can attempt to force a design to do more then is practical.

    As Richard mentioned, a Tsunami doesn't really affect a vessel at sea, unless you have divers down, who will feel the surge and possibly hear the Tsunami roll past. If you are in a tidal area, relatively close to shore then yep, you're going to get an *** whipping, possibly a capsize. If you are prepared you can probably take the wave train on the nose and continue out to sea in the lulls, which will be many minutes, not seconds. You can put a fair bit of distance between the shore and the next wave train in 15 minutes, possibly enough to reduce catastrophic damage on the very next wave.

    Again the key is a good skill set, a calm head and a boat that can be prepared for survival tactics, which unfortunately most aren't. It's one thing to have a skipper and crew that can handle things, but no way of sealing Dorade vents, no port planks, no way of reinforcing the hatches, etc. Folks that head to deep water in craft prepared like this have a much higher probability of becoming a headline in the news, rather then a cool storm story at the local bar.

    All of these things have absolutely nothing to do with the yacht design. It's more mental preparation and physically taking care of the properly equipped yacht. Granted, some yacht designs will fair better then others in a big blow, but even a poorly suited yacht design can survive a storm if well handled.
     
  2. fg1inc

    fg1inc Guest

    Over the last 50 years I've had 2 unsinkable boats. Oddly enough, they both sank. Of the 50 or so other, sinkable boats, none of them sank. Go figure!
     
  3. wmonastra
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Auckland New Zealand

    wmonastra Junior Member

    Would a smaller boat be safer you think? ( i know from experience that they would be) you know the cork riding the over the wave theory instead of pounding thu them, where it would do the most damage....sure you get wet in a smaller yacht, but in a storm every one gets wet, so would it really matter???? there are plenty of great trips that have been done in smaller yachts, and they came through allsorts pretty well....
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A smaller boat will experience much more motion and would be more likely to be overwhelmed, compared to a larger vessel caught in the same conditions. Large ships have ventured in storms without a care in the world, that would easily splinter a small craft, so I'm not sure what your experiences are, but the bigger the better generally. A braking 50' wave that slaps below the flight deck of a Nimitz class carrier would crush a 15' micro cruiser, the the skipper of the carrier wouldn't have noticed much.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If you get wet, you have lost the race........

    Stay dry, stay inside, do not "fight" the elements like a Hollywood Hero.
    Fatigue is the best killer at sea.:!:
    No storm, no swell, no breaking equipment, has killed half of the souls, lost to fatigue !!!

    THEY came NOT ALL through pretty well! Many of them do not make it into the headlines, but the souls lost are severe and noticeable.

    from which?

    Get some sealegs, then argue further!

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I appreciate your expertise, experience and good posts, but I have to ask:

    Why on Earth were you caught in 5 different hurricanes?? Are you more of a "land guy" who builds and designs boats than a "ocean guy?" Most of us "ocean guys" pay very close attention to weather. I'm an "ocean guy" who failed as a builder, so don't think I'm trying to be a jerk or anything. Your design skills are better than mine and your a better builder (I stink at both). It's just that when most people are at sea, they are able to avoid hurricanes. Why were you caught in 5 of them??
     
  7. wmonastra
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Auckland New Zealand

    wmonastra Junior Member

    Apex1

    Get some sealegs you say????? How much sailing have you done??? You dont know me or how much offshore sailing i have done, the last big trip i did was the 2009-10 Sydney to Hobart yacht race, then sailed back to NZ via the Auckland Islands, Ive done enough sailing in both boats over and under 30ft, so i know enough to "argue"!!! how much offshore sailing in small yachts have you done???? Or are you a stay at home sailor who only dreams of heading offshore but too lazy to get from behind your computer????


    Do share cause i can keep going all day!!!
     
  8. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: Springfield, Mo.

    Wavewacker Senior Member

    So, there are no large unsinkable yachts, only small ones that lose all hands aboard?
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've been "caught" a couple of times, it happens. You think a track is continuing west and it backs down on you, pulling a 160 degree turn and increasing speed, like Edith did to me in the western gulf in the early 70's. My boat was dismasted and badly damaged in that blow. This was of course long before we had accurate tracking available.

    Then again I was doing just what the USN was doing in the early 80's when we all headed out of Norfork to get some sea room, when the damn thing literally did a 360 degree sweep across about 200 miles of ocean. Try and out run a storm that's making a 200 mile wide, 360 degree circle. Damn we all got screwed on that one. I lost the boat and was rescued.

    I intentionally sailed Hugo twice, in a sailboat and a wind surfer the next day. I sailed through Marco in 1990. I knew I was going to take some weather, but figured I could say in front of it and let it slide to my east, if it continued it's northern track. It did and I had a fun ride, but it would have been ugly if she'd turned west.

    For what it's worth, I've avoided far more hurricanes then I've encountered, then again I've going looking for them more then once too.
     
  10. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    There is no such thing as an unsinkable boat. If it doesn't sink, the sea may decide to beat it to plastic bits on the rocks, then the bits sink.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    More than enough to say, you have none! How do you come to the conclusion, that smaller boats are safer? (your cork example is a pretty childish one)

    How do you think one MUST get wet in nasty weather?

    No no mate, your sea legs I still doubt, but I may be wrong.
    Those members here, knowing me, have no doubts about mine though! Look:http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wo...ywood-carvel-planking-34539-3.html#post398091

    Regards
    Richard
     
  12. wmonastra
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Auckland New Zealand

    wmonastra Junior Member

    Apex1,

    Your a funny man, and im not going to bother wasting my time with someone such as yourself, who cant think (or listen) outside the square. With my knowledge about you, your background is powerboats??? (please correct me if im wrong). I dont know of too many powerboats going offshore, or maybe as my interests are in the sailing side of things, i dont follow them?
    But for the record if you read one of the many books on small offshore sailing trips done over the years, you will see the " cork" reference raised a number of times!! (so not so childish as you put it, its there to give the "non sailor" a better understanding of whats going on!

    For the comment on getting wet in nasty weather, you can not honestly tell me that in any of your trips (either power or sail) that you or your boat you were in came out of the "storm, nasty weather " etc 110% dry???? Id doubt that very much. even the inside of coast guard life boats get wet on the inside during a storm. ( i had the pleasure of going to a rescue a few years ago, and got too see first hand how they do what it is they do.)

    I will always stand by my comment that small yachts are safer in heavy weather than larger ones, but thats only my opinion, as i have more experience in the smaller offshore yacht than i do the larger ones. but the thing is.....i do have the experience needed to make the right decisions needed to get back home to port safely.

    And at the end of the day...thats all that matters isnt it???..... wet or dry getting home safely to loved ones is all that counts..or is that childish as well???
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    This time you have got something right! Coming home is the task. but...

    Staying dry is one of the main problems at sea, as evereybody knows. I mentioned it already, fatigue is the worst killer on ocean passages. And a dry, warm sailor is able to make the right decisions and to sail his vessel safe.
    A (relatively) larger boat is usually sailing less wet, than a smaller one, and it is faster, making nasty passages shorter. Hence, bigger is better!

    Your coast guard should buy their vessels in Germany!

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. wmonastra
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Auckland New Zealand

    wmonastra Junior Member

    What are your coast guard boats like? how do they differ
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    They stay dry inside!
    Even when capsized in a grounding sea, with the superstructure hitting he sea bottom! http://www.dgzrs.de/

    And the ARE sinkable, different from your "Etap" boats, which of course will float after being hit by the right wave! But as debris, not as a boat.
    BTW.
    these are amongst the worst sailing boats on the market!

    No no mate, there is not much to see about your expertise here.............

    Regards
    Richard
     
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