28' riverboat Cindy Lou

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by troy2000, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I'm preparing to build a 28' boat designed by Paul Riccelli (aka PAR). The project started out as Egress, but got renamed Cindy Lou after my wife. No, the name change hasn't done me any good. But it was worth a try....:p

    Haven't actually laid down any lines or cut a piece of wood yet, but I've spent two chunks of change anyway. So I figured I'd start the thread, even if it's going to have a lot of down time.

    The first expenditure was for a C-Head composting toilet. Or as the creator/vendor prefers to call it, a CMT -- compact mouldering toilet.

    Yes, I'm getting ahead of myself; it'll be one of the last things actually installed in the boat. But meanwhile I plan to stick it in my motor home, and give it a good field test.

    By the way, the crank comes out and clips to the side of the toilet; you insert it when you're done to stir the results into the peat moss or other medium in the collection bin.

    The second purchase is a little more dubious. I was looking for a wood stove for the boat and found a used one on Craigslist, that has supposedly been used strictly as a decorator item its whole life. I agreed to buy it, and I'll pick it up this weekend.

    I call the stove a dubious purchase because it may well turn out to be too much stove for the Cindy Lou; her interior space will be less than a thousand cubic feet.

    But if it's too big, all won't be lost. Our home has a functional but starkly plain Jotul stove in the living room, and this one can replace it. If it does work in the boat, it's going to be interesting figuring out how to tie it down, with its pointy little feet.

    The stove is the last of the 'fun' spending for a while; it was kind of a Christmas present to myself. The next thing I'll buy is lumber to enclose the 12'x42' covered carport/patio behind a mobile home we have. My parents lived there for several years, and it's stood empty (except for the wife's stored junk) since they died. That should give me a good workshop for building the hull.

    As usual, click on the ithumbnails for a bigger image...
     

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  2. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Stirring it up is a good idea. I only have bad memories of the ones when you apply a layer of sawdust from time to time.

    I will be interested to hear how it works for you - I will reserve my comments till then.
     
  3. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    The difference between this toilet and the Nature's Head or Air Head toilets is that this one tends to roll stuff into baseball or grapefruit-sized balls covered with medium, instead of kneading it into the medium. That supposedly knocks out any odor faster and better, and also makes it easier to empty the collection bin; you just dump it into a five gallon bucket about every fifteen uses. Five or six dumps fills the bucket.

    That's more handling than the other toilets require. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to handle. I looked at a pic of one of the others getting emptied. It showed someone sticking a trash bag over the collection bin, so they could turn the bin upside down. It looked clumsy and inconvenient -- and like an unsanitary mishap waiting to happen....
     
  4. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Congrats Troy, im considering a C-head also before spring, ive already pulled out the head , tank and mess of hoses and valves. Whats your opinion of the construction? it looks like a hand fabricated unit rather than molded plastic parts as with the Natures head and Airhead, what kind of plastic sheetgoods is it made from? Thats a nicelooking woodstove, hope it fits.

    Steve.
     
  5. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    At the moment I don't know any more about the C-Head than you do, Steve. Sandy (the creator, proprietor and probably fabricator) sent me an email telling me it would ship in about a week. I'll post a report after it arrives.

    Funny thing about my tastes. In most things I value understatement, clean lines, the whole 'form follows function' bit. But I love ornate, gaudy wood stoves....

    add: there's no denying that Cindy Lou has a bit of a retro look. If I put that stove in, I'll probably wind up going a bit retro on the whole interior. Hopefully I can get it right so it's a classic look, rather than a kitschy one.
     
  6. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Speaking of which, I should have posted this at the beginning of the thread:
     

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  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Works for me . . .

    [​IMG]

    The yacht previously known as . . .
     
  8. Milehog
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    I envision a bench or athwartships sliding seat at the helm so's the mullion doesn't obscure the sight lines. Or even scooting the helm a tad could help.
    The front cockpit will be a thing of joy at work or play.
    The big new stove looks... big, but think of all the whiskey one will be able to stash away in it during the warmer months.
    The composting toilet will save considerable hours and money.
    What about Lexan(?) windows from wrecked buses? Lighter than glass, won't shatter and cheap.
    A Whale Babyfoot pump is all you need for a cold water only non-pressurized potable water system. Ours saves great amounts of water while providing all we need.
     
  9. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    OK, clicking on the thumbnail works for me now too, Paul. Of course I'm off work and on my laptop; maybe my company server had some kind of a block on the expanded image.
     
  10. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    I roofed the house of a friend who had a composting toilet. The odor is like nothing else and when the wind was right I would gag and move elsewhere (the other end of thed roof). Of course he said he hardly ever smelled it from the ground.
    The point is, I can't imagine actually living up there on his roof with that horrible stench. If you can incorporate a vent pipe that's well above your head that may help but if it doesn't work, well I don't know. Viewing PARs plan I see a mast very close to the toilet. USE IT!
    Congratulations otherwise on commencement of the new build.
     
  11. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I'll play with the helm arrangement before finalizing anything. Heck, I could set it up so the seat slides sideways, if need be.
    I agree.
    The gal selling it told me it's 28" wide by 15" deep by 34" tall. I won't have trouble fitting it in, but I may have trouble getting it to burn low enough to keep from running me out of the cabin.
    I hope so.....
    I've thought about Lexan. I've also thought about contacting some of the custom window companies we have in Southern California and seeing first, if they could do the windows for me as single-hungs, and second, whether doing so would break the bank.

    If I'm lucky, I might find an operation that takes it on more as a fun challenge (and maybe even an advertising opportunity) than as a profit-maker. But I suspect I'll wind up digging out the bandsaw, router, shaper and a few other tools, and fabricating them myself.
    Thanks for the suggestion; I went ahead and looked them up online. Eight liters a minute is a pretty impressive max output for a foot pump.

    But I'm going to have to do something about that pesky shower I'm replacing the hanging locker with. If I can't show the wife some sort of hot and cold running water in it, even if it's just a steady dribble, I don't like my chances of getting her to spend more than half a day aboard. And aggravating as she can be when she puts her mind to it, I like her company.
     
  12. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Alan, there is a difference between the house type composting toilets and the boat ones which seperate the urine from the solids, they work well.
     
  13. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Most composting toilets in the past combined the urine and solid wastes in the same collection bin. Definitely a bad idea, odor-wise. Not to mention the horror stories I've read about people trying to scoop the nasty mess out after the toilet fills up with sticky soup instead of compost.... But if the C-Head works as advertised, and as well as some users online say it does, I should be able to stick my nose into it and smell just a bit of musty, earthy odor.

    But we'll see; there's a reason I'm putting it in my motor home first. I live in it about half the time because I work away from home, so it should make for a good field test.

    add: I see Steve beat me to it. :)
     
  14. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    It is not just the size, but the weight. Since this boat has a displacement of some 1783kg (not much) with that stove, i.e. its weight, its structure to support it, the lagging you’ll need for fire safety and the chimney/exhaust stack etc…it won’t be light!! And then of course all the wood to burn..where will you place that and then its weight to add too. Thus, such a large concentrated mass on a small boat will or could have serious implications for the balance of your boat and take up perhaps too much “free space”.

    But that is one compromise you’ll need to consider and establish what are the effects on the boat with such a small displacement…not just on trim but the draft. Not saying it can't be done...but shall have implications.

    We’ve used Lexan on many boats. Ideal stuff.
     

  15. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Thanks for weighing in. I'll take all the opinions I can get in the planning stages... and you're raising some valid questions.

    I agree the weight of the stove itself is a consideration for trim and draft, although I doubt it's as heavy as you think (I'll find out Saturday morning, when I load it into my pickup). But it won't need lagging for fire safety around it, just sheet metal of one sort or another (probably copper or brass) spaced out from the bulkheads and cabinetry. There are also lightweight solutions for a fireproof surface to set it on...

    This stove certainly shouldn't need any extra structural support; 1/2" plywood on frames every 24" won't even notice the weight. The Jotul we have in our living room right now is much heavier, and the flooring handles it just fine. Not to mention the piano....:)

    The weight of a few feet of stovepipe, even double-walled, is also rather negligible.

    I've already determined I can reasonably make room for the stove, if I build with it in mind. But storage for the firewood? That could be a deal breaker -- even though the stove would rarely if ever burn 24/7 (I'll be on desert lakes, remember, and I won't be taking long cruises).

    If I put in a Sardine stove as originally planned, I could set it up high enough to match the galley countertop; that would give me room in a bin underneath that could hold a decent supply of the 6" wood a Sardine burns.

    Bottom line? Obviously I bought the stove because I fell in love with it, not because I thought it was the best solution for my boat. If it turns out not to be practical for that use, I won't be heartbroken -- nor will I get stubborn and force it in anyway. As mentioned earlier, I can find other uses for it....
     
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