23' Columbia

I'm thinking about buying a 1973 23' Columbia for $3500, no trailer, no engine. The hull and interior is in good shape and the sails are excellent. My question is since I don't know much about sailboats, what do people on this site think of the price?

 

It's about $3000 too high.

 

Why do you say that? What would you think I should get for $3500 as far as sailboats go?

 

The boat is 35 years old. There are over 500 boats on Yachtworld between 20 and 30 feet long for under $3500. For $3500 you should get a trailer (if it is a trailer boat) and a working engine.

If you buy an engine for the boat and a trailer for $1500 each, the whole package (boat, motor, and trailer) Might be worth $3500 ... so the boat is $500 at best.

The last Santana 22 I bought was $300. I bought an Excalibur 26 with a working outboard for $2000.

For that boat to be worth $3500 it would have to be in "as new" condition.

 

Ok, what if the boat came with a trailer that wasnt' exactly the right fit for this boat and the owner was throwing in a Mariner Motor that needs maintenance. I haven't seen the motor but his discription seemed like it might need to be fixed. I don't know how much though. I think the boat is like new though. Good interior, all lights working, no damage to the hull, etc.

 

Bqman,

Take someone who Does understand sailboats to look it over.

Sails can be deceptive as far as condition goes- deceptive & very expensive on a tight budget.

Get more info on the Mariner outboard. A 9.9hp new is approx. $1500 US up.

RHough is right about some good bargains out there. His finding two is proof.
But if the boat you know of is solid, the motor good, and the sails have some life left in them, go for it. I would attempt to have the owner adust the price down for major deficiencies. For $3500 you should be getting a functional boat.

If you are going to keep it on the trailer & move it much, the appropriateness of the trailer will be another concern.

Like I said above, find someone more familiar with boats and have them look her over.

Welcome to the forum.

Take care.

TGoz

 

I've looked at alot of boats and most of them are either 85's or older that are within my price range of $5000. How much of a difference does the year make? It's not like a car or is it just the same? I'm not looking for a fixer upper. I am just starting to get into sailing and really have no experience in it. So people keep saying I can get a boat for less than a grand but those all need alot of work. But for something that has no leaks, solid hull, an engine and a trailer between the 21'- 24' feet, what should I be paying? I've seen alot of different prices. I don't know how to value boats the way I know how to value cars. That's the kind of advice I'm looking for here.

 

I'm also thinking about a 21' San Juan San Juan MK 2 1979. It has a working motor and reliable trailer and it's for sale at $3850. Think it's a good deal vice the other one?

 

You are looking at this all wrong
If you feel the boat is worth that amount of money then it is!!!
we can tell you from our experiences that they are a heavy boat sail easily real top heavy with a spinnaker will broach sails well in following seas down like crap in a windward leg and we feel that it is not a good deal at 3500 but if you like the boat and it makes you warm and fuzzy then you may love the boat to death and have it your possession for years unlike cars we normally change boats as we do cars the boat is worth what you want to pay because this is not a necessity thing it really is what's makes you and your family warm and fuzzy if you are looking for someone to tell go and buy it you are not going to get that here either you will get the way I described it or you are going to get what you all ready got

Frank

 

Thanks Frank for your insight. But is there a way to determine a value of a boat, like there is for a car? No one will buy a 76' Camaro w/ no engine and transmission for $3000 because everyone knows it's not worth that much money even if the car makes you feel warm and fuzzy. So is there a way to determine a value for a boat? That's basically what I'm looking for. I understand that the 23' Columbia probably is a bad buy but how would I be able to determine that without seeking council from all of the people here that are experts? Or should I just keep coming up here and posting every possible boat I'm thinking about buying?

 

That's my point the Columbia is a reasonable boat, when it was new it was only about $8000.00 so to spend half for it 35 years later it pretty hard for me to justify but on the same hand I had plenty of fun in that boat and she always brought me home safe. I guess what I am trying to say is that if the fiberglass is okay on the inside and out (osmosis get a survey well worth the couple hundred for that ) and you can go down and drop it in the water pull up sails (again survey those sails ) that boat can be and most likely be the greatest thing you ever did (nothing beats a evening on the water with the other half maybe a dinner of in a cove some where......) that's what you are paying for. far to often we look at everything for its worth from everyone else's point of view and we have to look at ourselves for the worth do you think that when Jay leno spent 1.5 million on that ugly little electric car he was wondering what it will be worth someday ....no he could care less or the king from aboudastan(spelling) spent 500 million on that super yacht that he was worried about if it was worth it ....... you have to look at it like this
1) is it going to provide the avenue to my goal?
2) what is my goal worth?
3) if this vessel going to need repairs can I do it or can I afford to pay some one for it?
4) what is the actual goal? performance or latest greatest items ?
what I mean about this one (this I am guilty of ... ) am I getting this so I can rebuild it for all the latest toys and gizmo's from west marine or the like and is it worth it or is there a boat that maybe more money but save me in the long run (I hate growing up ...lol)
5) And the last but certainly not least is when you go to look at a boat make sure you go alone to begin with and do not forget your rose colored glasses and I mean that in the very best way possible make sure you see what you want and after you see then take the wife (or other) and look at it feasibly and be honest if you are making one excuse after another then maybe think about the decision
cause as we all know a boat by it's very definition is a "hole in the water where one throws money"

I probably forgot a whole load of stuff but you can see where I am going

I am not trying to tell what way to go here cause you are the only one that can decide this and asking a bunch of professionals is really not a good idea cause everyone of us has at least couple of if not more boats hidden in the back corner just cause we wanted it

Frank
Now I am going back to work on my "got to have it" (1979 Sea-ray 191 with the big block... the race boats can wait

 

Survey!
Actually older fiberglass boats are built alot stouter than modern ones. the reason being that the older ones were still an experiment and had lots of internal framing.

 

Frank, I appreciate all that you've said but I sorry I don't understand your logic. And I'm pretty sure you're not understanding me either. Basically I have 'zero' sailing experience. This is my first boat ever. I fell in love with the sea during my term in the service and wanted to sail ever since. So this is years of anticipation with no experience coming out. All I wanted to know was what other people and how other people on this site would value a boat. Because if I bought a boat, I would eventually try to sell it and I would like to get back as much money as I can. I would be willing to pay $5000 for that boat and not know any better that to any other boat enthusiast, that is over paying until I was ready to sell the boat and realize no body will pay anywhere near that much. I have a friend in Detroit, MI who I call everytime I go to look at a boat and get his opinion. I came onto this site only for a second opinion and RHough pretty much confirmed my buddies first analysis. Which convinced me to hold out for a better deal. Now you're saying that value is subjective which in return comes to me as getting ripped off. I can put a value on cars because I'm a car enthusiast and have built hot rods before. I know what a hot rodder is willing to pay is far different than what the average consumer is willing to pay. Because a hot rodder knows what makes the hot rod special from factory cars. The average consumer does not. In sailing, I am the average consumer. I don't know what makes one sailboat special from the other. Basically, I need a Kelley Blue Book for sailboats. I hope you're understanding what I'm trying to say and that I can still use this site to get other peoples opinions on whether or not a boat is set at an appropriate price. Thanks for all the replies, it is more helpful than you think. But remember, I'm a guy with no experience in sailing and this is my first boat. So I value the opinions of others with a lot of experience. Just be a little more specific on why a sale may not be worth it. I'm not criticizing anyone, I just want to know why RHough originally said that it's a rip off.

 

Chandler, can you elaborate. Does that mean that older boats depreciate slower in value than newer ones?

 

Another thing to consider is that the initial purchase price is always just the start. Things will nearly always cost more outlay then what you initially thought.
My experience for what it's worth.
I'd sailed a lot over the yrs with friends but never owned my own boat.
Eventually I came to be in the position to shop around. Found a boat I liked, had it surveyed and reduced the price by $5,000 dollars from what the owner started out asking for it.
There were things that obviousley needed doing. I was aware ot them and budgeted for them. So I thought. Things did go over the repair budget of $5,000 that I had allocated and still not everthing is completley up to scratch.
Having said all that my boat is sound, usable, seaworthy and I get out in it quite a lot and have had a huge amount of enjoyment.
It had not a lot of use over the previous 18months prior to my purchase. Once it started getting used regularly other things cropped up,the regular use showed up weaknesses in other components that also needed overhaul .
My point being, whatever you buy make sure you get the price down as much as possible and leave yourself a "fix-it" budget for all the things that are sure to arise once you start useing the boat.
You must spend the money to have a survey done, even more so if your not knowledgable about boats, try to get a test sail, find out how long since it's last been used.
Open and close everything that moves, try every button/swith/lever that you can lay your hands on.
There are old sails are there are old sails. Some of mine are very old but I spent about $300 per sail to get them repaired and they have so far given me 12 months of trouble free service. A lot cheaper then buying new sails.
Having said that were I planning any long voyages then I would probably replace at least one of them.
Hope this gives you some ideas. My boat by the way is 21 yrs old.

Mychael