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22 - 24 trimaran
- Thread starter waynemarlow
- Start date
foredeck extension
Samnz, Thanks, That gives me something to start with, I thought your beams looked farther apart than stock- I like it. My mast is 11m from the step ball, but is stepped about 250mm lower (I don't have a cabin) so we must have about the same size rig. I don't have a "fat head" main yet. My foredeck was extended about 75mm at the front to about 150mm at the rear on each side with a small lip turned down. It gives more working area on the deck and almost completely stops water from "climbing" the hull side and blowing back. I imagine it added about 8-10lbs total and seems worth it. I am adding netting to catch the jibs. Are Capricorn's float bows extended? Bruce
Samnz, Thanks, That gives me something to start with, I thought your beams looked farther apart than stock- I like it. My mast is 11m from the step ball, but is stepped about 250mm lower (I don't have a cabin) so we must have about the same size rig. I don't have a "fat head" main yet. My foredeck was extended about 75mm at the front to about 150mm at the rear on each side with a small lip turned down. It gives more working area on the deck and almost completely stops water from "climbing" the hull side and blowing back. I imagine it added about 8-10lbs total and seems worth it. I am adding netting to catch the jibs. Are Capricorn's float bows extended? Bruce
My floats and main hull are 100% stock standard. I have often thought about extending the bows on the floats, or replacing the floats or adding foils but couldnt decide what to do to optimise the boat so added the canting rig, with only 8 degrees cant adds about 1 to 2 knots on a reach!
waynemarlow
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Guys any chance we can move this thread on from a very outdated old fashioned boat ( it maybe a good boat but it simply is not very modern in design ) to more something that is what I call a Sports racer, ie a small cabin but still fast enough to go and have fun racing with.
An example is the boat http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=82523 being built by the Swedish lads
An example is the boat http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=82523 being built by the Swedish lads
old boat
Wayne, I am sorry to have diverted the thread, I am interested in new designs also, but I am sailing what I have. I am new to the forums and I didn't know how to start a new thread. There is a lot to learn from the "old 24", the basic design has stood the test of time well. My boat is still mostly stock and is boat for boat faster than any of the 24' corsairs in my area, (and most anything else under 35'), only a 31R Corsair and a Reynolds 33 are real competition, and then only when it blows- and I am working on that. Buc 24's and other ply boats can be built in about 600-800 hrs with relatively cheap materials, very little sanding, almost no equipment, and with reasonable upkeep can last a long time. Most new designs I see are glass/foam-glass construction, and glass is not a very good one-off material; the build time is way too long, the materials are very expensive and tend to be toxic in a small shop. I know from experience, I had a busy (and dusty) service department. Cutting edge purpose built race boats are nice (particularly if you have a good sponsor), and require the best and lightest construction, but are not justified for most sailors. Many of the new designs are prototype boats that would work fine with molds and production facilities but are not at all suited to a home builder. In my area, home-built glass boats don't have very much better re-sale value than wood, so any new design has to be a real breakthrough in design/performance/build time/cost before I! would undertake the project. I am getting older and I would rather sail than sand any day. As a boat dealer, I sailed on, surveyed, messed with and repaired quite a few different designs; the Buc 24 was on a very short list of boats that met my needs, I just wish I had purchased or built one 20yrs ago. It didn't hurt that I found one for an almost give-away price either, but I was already looking at them. Bruce ( I will be happy to start a new thread for my interests, I didn't mean to take this over, it just got interesting as it went)
Wayne, I am sorry to have diverted the thread, I am interested in new designs also, but I am sailing what I have. I am new to the forums and I didn't know how to start a new thread. There is a lot to learn from the "old 24", the basic design has stood the test of time well. My boat is still mostly stock and is boat for boat faster than any of the 24' corsairs in my area, (and most anything else under 35'), only a 31R Corsair and a Reynolds 33 are real competition, and then only when it blows- and I am working on that. Buc 24's and other ply boats can be built in about 600-800 hrs with relatively cheap materials, very little sanding, almost no equipment, and with reasonable upkeep can last a long time. Most new designs I see are glass/foam-glass construction, and glass is not a very good one-off material; the build time is way too long, the materials are very expensive and tend to be toxic in a small shop. I know from experience, I had a busy (and dusty) service department. Cutting edge purpose built race boats are nice (particularly if you have a good sponsor), and require the best and lightest construction, but are not justified for most sailors. Many of the new designs are prototype boats that would work fine with molds and production facilities but are not at all suited to a home builder. In my area, home-built glass boats don't have very much better re-sale value than wood, so any new design has to be a real breakthrough in design/performance/build time/cost before I! would undertake the project. I am getting older and I would rather sail than sand any day. As a boat dealer, I sailed on, surveyed, messed with and repaired quite a few different designs; the Buc 24 was on a very short list of boats that met my needs, I just wish I had purchased or built one 20yrs ago. It didn't hurt that I found one for an almost give-away price either
, but I was already looking at them. Bruce ( I will be happy to start a new thread for my interests, I didn't mean to take this over, it just got interesting as it went)Samnz, I could always use another knot or two, so how do you make the rig Cant? I have read about them, but never seen or sailed with one. I am making new shrouds so this would be a good time to modify things. I have started on board trunks for my floats, (Miranda style), if I get them in and test them this spring (in about 3-4 months) I will report back with the results. I am not removing the center trunk yet so I can compare the performance. Thanks, Bruce
Chris Ostlind
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Guys any chance we can move this thread on from a very outdated old fashioned boat ( it maybe a good boat but it simply is not very modern in design ) to more something that is what I call a Sports racer, ie a small cabin but still fast enough to go and have fun racing with.
An example is the boat http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=82523 being built by the Swedish lads
I think it is more than possible to create a "modern looking" trimaran that has all the features you suggest... in marine plywood, or as a foam cored build style. As Bruce indicates, it will be a nice assignment to get that boat to actually perform better than the Buc in an overall sense.
Maybe in some areas such as:
1. convenience of launch procedures when trailered by giving it a simple folding function
2. the ability of the boat to handle a more varied sea state by giving it taller and slightly fuller amas as well as an incorporated spray chine in the vaka hull
3. the potential to offer more flowing cabin lines above the shear with enhanced function for the owner
These would be good places to start and would produce a boat that would not only retain the sailing potential, but give the boat a whole new kind of feel.
oldsailor7
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BRUCE.
I don't think you have "Hi Jacked the thread".
The interest has been generated by other interested, (and qualified) persons, resulting in an active discussion of a particular boat with a real history.
There is absolutely no reason that other worthy boats can't be freely discussed, as is the new Swedish one mentioned.
As far as the Buc 24 is concerned, it's like the old song---"Everything old is New again". LOL !!
Cheers. Paddy.
I don't think you have "Hi Jacked the thread".
The interest has been generated by other interested, (and qualified) persons, resulting in an active discussion of a particular boat with a real history.
There is absolutely no reason that other worthy boats can't be freely discussed, as is the new Swedish one mentioned.
As far as the Buc 24 is concerned, it's like the old song---"Everything old is New again". LOL !!
Cheers. Paddy.
Inprovments
OK, lets keep going. Chris, I think you are right on target- any boat designed today at least needs to consider trailability and storage, besides sailing well. Boats like the L7 are certainly in the right direction, and it has been built, raced and "de-bugged", always a good thing. I have not sailed one, but I did see one on a trailer and it looked well thought out. My boat is a real pain to dismount and trailer- 2-2 1/2 hours each way and not in the water. I am working on folding it with Samnz"s beams- and a "Corsair" type bottom arm; I have built a small model that seems to work, and not too hard to add to the boat. I know our floats could be larger, I just don't know which way is best to increase the volume- length &/or beam & height. All add weight. Modern cabins have come a long way, and are pretty easy to add or modify in the early construction stage- as long as they are still kept light. I sold several "Eagles" (the tramp?) that were nicely engineered and produced tris, but they were over-weight, the cockpit sole was wet all the time and they were not nearly the boat they could have been. When I was selling boats, Stilettos were some of the few production multis that were on their design weight, and they were fanatical to do it at the factory. Many glass boats, production and one-offs, did not come close. Crowther's designs were fairly simple, but as a result, they were often built close to his specs and many were completed- something sort of rare in the homebuilt world. Phil Bolger's simpler designs are good examples in monohull sail and power; they are real world tested and proven- maybe not the "best" designs, but they surely do work and lots have been built. Bruce
OK, lets keep going. Chris, I think you are right on target- any boat designed today at least needs to consider trailability and storage, besides sailing well. Boats like the L7 are certainly in the right direction, and it has been built, raced and "de-bugged", always a good thing. I have not sailed one, but I did see one on a trailer and it looked well thought out. My boat is a real pain to dismount and trailer- 2-2 1/2 hours each way and not in the water. I am working on folding it with Samnz"s beams- and a "Corsair" type bottom arm; I have built a small model that seems to work, and not too hard to add to the boat. I know our floats could be larger, I just don't know which way is best to increase the volume- length &/or beam & height. All add weight. Modern cabins have come a long way, and are pretty easy to add or modify in the early construction stage- as long as they are still kept light. I sold several "Eagles" (the tramp?) that were nicely engineered and produced tris, but they were over-weight, the cockpit sole was wet all the time and they were not nearly the boat they could have been. When I was selling boats, Stilettos were some of the few production multis that were on their design weight, and they were fanatical to do it at the factory. Many glass boats, production and one-offs, did not come close. Crowther's designs were fairly simple, but as a result, they were often built close to his specs and many were completed- something sort of rare in the homebuilt world. Phil Bolger's simpler designs are good examples in monohull sail and power; they are real world tested and proven- maybe not the "best" designs, but they surely do work and lots have been built. Bruce
Guys any chance we can move this thread on from a very outdated old fashioned boat ( it maybe a good boat but it simply is not very modern in design ) to more something that is what I call a Sports racer, ie a small cabin but still fast enough to go and have fun racing with.
An example is the boat http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=82523 being built by the Swedish lads
Thats a pretty awesome looking boat, some bits remind me of a seacart 30.
WayneMarlow what boats are you planning on racing against? and is there a local rule or class which would dictate the design brief?
In Auckland we have a 8.5 class rule see www.multihull.org.nz to build a new boat which doesnt fit the rule wouldnt be a good idea because you would have to race the 9m and bigger tris, and would not be able to beat them!
Would you consider a F22 with redesigned floats for racing? The main hull and beams seems well designed and proven on this boat.
The Catri 24 is a pretty cool looking boat too. http://www.catri.se/
waynemarlow
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[/QUOTE] WayneMarlow what boats are you planning on racing against? and is there a local rule or class which would dictate the design brief?
The Catri 24 is a pretty cool looking boat too. http://www.catri.se/[/QUOTE]
What indeed is there to race against, looking at the MOCRA web site it seems mainly firebirds, grainger cats, F31R, F25C, F27, even a SeaCart and a myriad of other 8 - 10 metre boats, which sort of makes a 7 - 8 metre boat a tad small. However cost and conveniance of small and beautiful which means light weight is high on my priorities as I intend to travel to parts of Europe with it, making the larger boats a bit of a pain to move around.
There doesn't seem to be a local class as such but I seem to remember that the F24's were in one class and the F25C in another but that was a long time ago, perhaps if there are other English sailors more in the know, they may know more.
Yep the Catri is right on top of my list but it is a lot of money, perhaps more than I have at the moment.
The Catri 24 is a pretty cool looking boat too. http://www.catri.se/[/QUOTE]
What indeed is there to race against, looking at the MOCRA web site it seems mainly firebirds, grainger cats, F31R, F25C, F27, even a SeaCart and a myriad of other 8 - 10 metre boats, which sort of makes a 7 - 8 metre boat a tad small. However cost and conveniance of small and beautiful which means light weight is high on my priorities as I intend to travel to parts of Europe with it, making the larger boats a bit of a pain to move around.
There doesn't seem to be a local class as such but I seem to remember that the F24's were in one class and the F25C in another but that was a long time ago, perhaps if there are other English sailors more in the know, they may know more.
Yep the Catri is right on top of my list but it is a lot of money, perhaps more than I have at the moment.
upsets
Samnz, Looking at your club results, you and your 40year old wooden box are doing pretty well in some fast company On a different theme, I opened my sailing world calender december pic with Groupama in its most stable position- good view of the bottoms and foils. Does anyone here have any "experience" in pitchpoles or ?? with our size of boats? Bruce
Samnz, Looking at your club results, you and your 40year old wooden box are doing pretty well in some fast company
On a different theme, I opened my sailing world calender december pic with Groupama in its most stable position- good view of the bottoms and foils. Does anyone here have any "experience" in pitchpoles or ?? with our size of boats? Bruce
oldsailor7
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I have never heard of a Buc 24 being pitchpoled or capsized.
However there were a lot of them built and sailed up in Queensland where their sailing and racing conditions can be pretty rough. Someone from up there, (or in NZ) may have more information. :?:
However there were a lot of them built and sailed up in Queensland where their sailing and racing conditions can be pretty rough. Someone from up there, (or in NZ) may have more information. :?:
Samnz, Looking at your club results, you and your 40year old wooden box are doing pretty well in some fast company
I have replyed here...
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/buccaneer-24-trimaran-25159.html
Dont want to discuss and outdated design on this thread
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