21ft WARATAH & 26ft CRUSADER. TWIN KEEL. Plans

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by djaus, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    I am in the unique position of being able to offer information on both these yachts. I have a full set of design plans for each. They were designed in Australia in the late 60's by Dennis knight. If you own one of these yachts or want information on them then please send me a message. I do not have access to my regular PC at the moment so can't upload photo's of these yachts. However my avatar is currently displaying the CRUSADER and profile picture is the WARATAH.
     
  2. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    Finally got my PC back up and running. Here's the design sheet cover images. I'm also offering silhouetted copies of the keel line and frames for the purpose of model building.(Australia only) I'm also working on my own model design for a replica 44.6ft semi racing yacht (67cm long). If you would like more info just send me a message.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013
  3. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    djaus Salted Nut!

    To my knowledge these designs are not patented.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  4. djaus
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    djaus Salted Nut!

    *Common questions about finding copyright owners
    What if the copyright owner is dead or has gone out of business?*
    If copyright was owned by an individual who has died, copyright is usually passed onto that
    personʼs spouse or children. You may be able to check who inherited copyright if you can get a
    copy of the personʼs will. If copyright has not been bequeathed specifically, it is presumed to form
    part of the residual estate. In Australia, contact the Probate Division of the Supreme Court in the
    State or Territory where the author died. Alternatively, if the work has been published, contact the
    relevant publisher.
    If a work has not been published, the person to whom the manuscript is bequeathed is also
    understood to inherit the copyright in that work unless the testator has indicated otherwise.
    If copyright was owned by an Australian company which has gone out of business, you may be
    able to get information about what happened to the companyʼs assets (which include copyrights)
    from the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC): www.asic.gov.au
    *What if I cannot find the copyright owner?*
    The Copyright Act does not allow you to use protected material without permission merely because
    you are unable to find the copyright owner.
    Nonetheless, in some cases, publishers and other users make a commercial decision to use
    copyright material despite having failed to find the copyright owner. ***They weigh the risks of a
    copyright owner bringing an infringement action against the benefits of reproducing the work. They
    sometimes include a statement (referred to as a “good faith notice”) saying they tried to find the
    copyright owner, and that they are willing to pay the copyright owner a reasonable fee. A good
    faith notice does not give legal protection from being sued for infringement.***
    However, on a practical level, it may show the copyright owner that the failure to obtain permission
    was because the user could not find him or her, not because they wanted to avoid paying for the
    use. Copyright owners may settle a claim, by accepting an agreed licence fee, in these
    circumstances.
    If you intend to use such a notice, it is important to keep records of all attempts you have made to
    locate and contact the copyright owner.
    *What if I do not get a response from the copyright owner? Can I go ahead and use the
    material?*
    The Copyright Act does not allow you to use material without permission if you have not received a
    response from the copyright owner. You may decide to make a commercial decision to go ahead
    with your intended use but, in doing this you run the risk of being held liable for copyright
    infringement if the copyright owner brings an action against you.
    *Vessel Hull Design Protection Act, 10 years.* Registration must be applied for and approved . Designs which are covered by a design patent are not eligible for VHDPA registration. Covers the shape and the hull and deck if they are sufficiently unique. “Protection is afforded only to vessel hull designs embodied in actual vessel hulls that are publicly exhibited, publicly distributed, or offered for sale or sold to the public on or after October 28, 1998.” Does not apply to designs which have not been built and application for registration has to be made within two years of the first public showing of the hull. ***Once the 10 year term expires the design is in the public domain.***

    ***Copyright, term varies and for works created before 1978. and without copyright notice and/or registration there "may be no copyright".*** Works created after 1977 do not require registration or notice. Terms for works which qualify for copyright are very long. In general copyright applies to “original works of authorship”. Artwork is covered by copyright to the extent it is non-functional. Functional objects are not covered by copyright. Boat plans which are original may be covered by copyright and can’t be reproduced without the permission of the copyright owner (other than within the fair use exemption). However the knowledge in the plans isn’t covered "so boats can be built from copyright plans without infringing on the copyright".
     
  5. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    djaus Salted Nut!

    So presuming you have read the information above, I will some up. In my defense I have searched the IP Australia website as well as AUSPAT, ATMOSS & ADDS. There are no records of these designs ever having been patented. If you, PAR, have found contradictory information I would like to hear it although it may be rather difficult for you to match or better my research efforts as you would need to travel from the U.S to Australia to do so. So thank you for your input PAR. I have conducted 2 years of research & I'm still researching. I am currently in contact with the Australian copyright council regarding the acquisition of these designs & I am waiting to hear back from the supreme court probate divisions in 3 Australian states. I love these designs & I would like to let their heritage live on, with full credit given to the designer & any royalties to the estate, should the circumstance arise. Timber construction methods are universal over time, the technology changes as does material choices but these yachts can still be built today albeit to a more modern standard. PS: I use different alias's on some websites as I have been on some forums for a while and, over time, have decided simply to use a more relevant username & not for the purpose of concealing my identity. My real name is Dirk!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  6. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    In the US copyright is automatic without registration, and has been for a number of years. Also notice of copyright is not required. My understanding is that has been the case in a number of other countries.

    The question of whether royalties are due for any boats built using a particular set of plans would depend on the terms of the original sale of the plans.
     
  7. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    If in 1965 the designs laid down by Dennis were automatically copyrighted then yes, that copyright is still active although the law is different for material produced prior to 1977. There is no database in Australia for copyright's and their owners, only patents & designs & I've found nothing....and trust me I've done my share of searching, sometimes staying up until 2 or 3am to search & spending hours on the phone & websites. So I can offer the information, design sheets & copies of, (at my own risk) as my search for the copyright holder & members of the Knight estate have been unsuccessful (but ongoing). All search efforts have been recorded. Also as my grandfather (purchaser of the plans) is deceased, getting the original purchase agreement is impossible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  8. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    Post removed by user
     
  9. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 163
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    Post removed by user.
     
  10. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 163
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    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    Post removed by user
     
  11. Boat Design Net Moderator
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    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    It seems there is a continuation of a heated disagreement that happened on another forum --
    if you have an argument with someone on another forum, please don't bring the argument over to here.

    This could be an informative thread exploring the copyright, details, and history of these plans.
    But let's please get the thread to a polite conversation and not go further with the jabs or stalking behavior.

    (the thumbnail/image of the overall boat posted above should not be a problem, but please don't attach the actual plans here until they are in the public domain or the copyright ownership is certain.)
     
  12. djaus
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    Location: AU

    djaus Salted Nut!

    Informative & appreciated post. Thanks mod'. I had no intention of continuing the issue's that took place on another forum but in order to protect my unknown but good name on this forum I was forced to defend myself. I certainly did not want to cast a shadow on my name or thread on this forum. What I aim to do with these plans could be considered "illegal" although there are exceptions to the rule in this case. I'm happy to start another thread to discuss the in's & out's/pro's & cons of copyright laws and the use of copyrighted material in varying circumstances, lord knows I could do with extra advice and we can all learn along the way. The full design sheets will certainly NOT be posted on ANY online medium, at least not until ALL copyright issues have been sorted (I'm almost there!). At this point in time I merely want to spread the word that these designs do exist (known only to an Australian minority), that they are tried & tested & that I have the information. In recent years a few folks on other forums have searched for info' on these boats but not many people knew of their existence. I would love to spark some interest about these boats so I welcome anyone to drop in for a chat & I thank the moderator for the unbiased intervention. Thank's :)
     

  13. chris paul
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: tasmania

    chris paul New Member

    waratah

    hello, I currently own a waratah yacht, she recently broke her mooring and ran aground, somehow during the process she lost her ruder. I was wondering if you could help me out with information about the ruder so I can make one.
    kind regards.

    chrispaul
     
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