2015 Little America's Cup

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Interesting to see the level of Frank on Groupama.... already fully foiling at speed of 5-6 knots. Amazing. How comes ??

    Groupama team seems far, far ahead the other competitors... keeping so quietly balanced the boat even at the pylons with heavy course changes not loosing uplift.

    Impressive...
     
  2. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    How to come into foiling on such boats ????

    It is such a joy to watch this boat and Frank's training unit.

    What I love in foiling that the boat quietens, so long it is masters by the crew. No big pitching, no healing...

    The boat is like on railway steadily going straight. It looks so quietening... for my eyes and sailor heart its an aesthetic enjoyment.

    Two question as we see here one of the top financially equipped sail racing teams with a very powerful sponsor groupama:

    1. How can an amateur sailor experience this kind of boats (in the closer future) ?

    I suppose such a wing mast equipped C-Boat is very, very costly... a normal sailor neither has the budget to finance it out of own pocket nor smaller sponsors have the budget to run over year a two handed crew. Many people in this video are on the payrole. Frank can be happy to call this his "job".

    2. What kind of boats we will see in the closer future amateur sailors can get to experience this foiling sailing at low budgets ?

    I suppose it needs such a complexe wing rigg of a C class to get the fully balance of real foiling under every condition, isnt ?

    ---------

    I really wonder how all the sailors for the "Little America's Cup Regatta" got so quickly the sponsors ???????? - Some only sail for very few months on these fantastic boats. I know sports sponsoring business... its a very complexe thematic. Not easy to find a company putting some hundred thousand dollars into such a boat + team. (Rec.: If you calculate the Diam 24 Trimaran one design boat (at a low prize of 50-55 THousand Euros), you need minimum 250 Thousand per year to run a fully racing team.)

    From where to get a sponsor ? Does the regatta organizer has a central marketing and advertising agency to deliver to all teams sponsors ? - Its the biggest challenge in my understanding: How to finance a team ?? All the other technical aspects are "peanuts" against this problem.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Probably the easiest way to experience foiling on your own would be with a derivative of the Moth called the Waszp. Target price under 12 grand. But it probably won't be regarded as easy to sail but once you get the hang of it, it will be a lot of fun. No wing rig. There are no production foilers available with wing rigs, as far as I know.
    Or maybe you could find someone near you with a foiling cat and ask them for a ride?
    I think the top recorded speed of the Moth* is still at or slightly faster than the top recorded speed of a C Class......
    * Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)-see the thread and videos under "Sailboats"

    http://www.waszp.com/?utm_source=sa...-of-site&utm_campaign=WASZP-one-design-foiler
     
  4. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    There was a great article over at yacht sponsorship by Ken Read about securing Puma as a sponsor for their Volvo Ocean Race campaign. I think he is right unless you have an "in" with the boss forget it. You could waste years of your life trying to get a commitment from most large companies marketing departments. Maybe in countries like France where sailing has a good saleable market profile it works differently but that is the only exception I can think of.

    http://www.yachtsponsorship.com/2014/03/ken-reads-sailing-sponsorship-advice/
     
  5. bjn
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    bjn Senior Member

    Is there only one C-class event each other year?
    No other races with C-class catamarans?
     
  6. bjn
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    bjn Senior Member

    Why only one event each other years for these boats?
    Is it by tradition, or lack of interest in the class?
     
  7. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    They are amazing boats, but so expensive that few people can race them.

    In the early years of the class it was much more active. Wings and competition from other classes seems to have reduced the numbers. For a while, the Cs may also not have been the fastest "small" cat; when the British C Invictus joined a regular cat regatta she struggled downwind even against some of the 16 foot spinnaker cats, which could be one indication that the wing mast is often nowhere near as fast as sometimes claimed.
     
  8. bjn
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    bjn Senior Member

    I've written a simple VPP in Excel. My results shows that on foils the wing is a big advantage. But when the speed is restricted by the hull, the difference is not that big compared to a good sail.

    I'm not familiar with all the multihull classes, but there seems to be a big gap between the tornado's and similar, to the next larger class. From 16-20feet and 150kg + 2 crew, to 32 feet and >1000kg with 4-5 crew.

    A boat with the size of the c-class - 24 feet, 300kg, and 2-3 crew, could maybe be something.
     
  9. Doug Halsey
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    Doug Halsey Senior Member

    It's 1976 all over again!

    link : http://dspace.sunyconnect.suny.edu/bitstream/handle/1951/37185/CEAS--279.pdf
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Doug, thanks for that link!!
     
  11. bjn
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    bjn Senior Member

    Thanks for the paper.

    I was not born in -76. Not sure what you are saying. I was not saying that I think that I'm breaking new grounds with my simple calc. I've never sailed a catamaran, so the only base of my post is my calc. The advantage of the wing is not big enough to win against a boat with twice the sail area downwind (spinnaker/gennaker). If both are on foils it might be, though.

    When googling for better pictures of the boats I found this paper about Miss Nylex:
    http://hem.bredband.net/vschoon/Miss_Nylex.pdf
     
  12. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    It's an interesting point, but the Tornado is still fairly easy to handle on a beach and on a tilt trailer. Once you increase the size, weight and beam, could you fit it on a manually-operated tilt trailer or would it be too high and too heavy to lift easily?are any of the classes above 18 feet doing well enough to indicate that a 24 footer could get significant support?

    The other fact is that almost no one sails those 32 feet 1000kg multis. Sure, they put out a lot of press releases, but the actual number of boats that have been sold is tiny. There's only about 9 active D35s and 6 GC32s racing, and that's after billionaires have thrown big dollars at them. In earlier eras classes like the Micros and Formula 28 got much bigger fleets.

    Given the tiny size of the 32-35 foot fleets, and the small size of the Tornado fleet, it seems there isn't really much interest.
     

  13. bjn
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    bjn Senior Member

    You have good points. Yes, maybe it's about weight, trailering, and the issues of handling the boat by yourself. And the costs, of course.

    About 32 footers, there is also the all carbon ~550kg M32. Can be towed behind a normal car, and be assembled by one person, I believe.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDlTPTWUto8
    http://livestream.com/m32cup/events/4296087
    There are 9 boats in this event. Still not many, but maybe the biggest active class in this size.

    About the 24 feet size, I just remembered there are some trimarans. Like the Multi 23
    http://www.catsailingnews.com/2014/12/multi-23-mkii.html
    Not a racing boat, but pretty light. I believe they are raced for fun in Stockholm now and then. I should check it out next summer.
     
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