2010 Sydney-Hobart Ocean Race-WOXI again?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Heres the site for the race: http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/editorial.asp?key=527
    Anybody know of any serious performance developments?

    I guess I'm for Wild Oats XI again....Alfa won last year but is not expected to race this year-I'm not sure who the other contenders are. I think Sean Langman is dong the race...
     
  2. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    There's three canting-keel maxis - WOXI, Loyal (ex-Maxibus) and Wild Thing, and a canting 90 footer (ex Nicorette). None of them is newer than five years old, because the maxi canter is the least popular maxi type we've seen in offshore racing for 40 years.

    I don't think there's any smaller canters in the race this year, although I haven't checked.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Power Ballast Systems,foils and other fun things

    -------------------
    Says you. Almost all the big monohull race boats-Open 60s and Vovo 70's use canting keels-why? Because they are the fastest type of monohull ballasting period(for the time being). Which is why the terribly "unpopular" maxi's use them as well.
    And now the Open 60's are using lifting foils-what could be next? On-deck movable ballast? DSS? Retractable T foils? Why pretty soon the monohulls will be faster than multihulls......(of course proving that in the S/H is prohibited-though I wonder: will multies finally be allowed in the S/H when monohulls are faster than multies??)
    Think a fixed keel dino-mono will win this year CT?
     
  4. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    You would seem to be confusing line honours with winning. First crossing the line in the Derwent doesn't necessarily mean "win".

    --
    CutOnce
     
  5. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Im not a fan of canters either and am surprised they are allowed in the race as to me they do detract from the skill of the sailors and the level playing field concept at least with the Volvo Ocean Race they are all canters and therefore apples are compared to apples.

    Having to run an engine full time to assist with sailing duties does to my mind make the sailing less pure.
     
  6. cardsinplay
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    Doug,

    The hype machine just never knows when to shut itself off...

    You never cease to amaze me with your willingness to say stuff and not notice, whatsoever, just what was said by the post that got you all huffed. In this case, CT tossed out the bait and you have succeeded in filling his tag and bag limit for the week with your response. Nice work.

    Take another look and note that he said, "least popular maxi type... in 40 years". It's really simple to figure this one out since canters have only been around for a limited time and when one compares that slice to the entire 40 years as stated, it's almost painful that you just stepped right into the trap.

    Remarkable
     
  7. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Doug;

    You conjured something out of my post that simply did not exist. The post quite clearly stated that I was talking about "MAXI" types - not boats like VO70s and Open 60s that are 30 to 40 feet shorter than the current grand-prix maxi size (which is set at 100 feet)

    Calling a singlehanded 60 a "maxi" in an era of 100 foot maxis is stretching the "maxi" concept well past breaking point. In relative terms, it's the same as calling a 48 footer a "maxi" in IOR days. People would have pissed themselves laughing at anyone who did that. A "maxi" is not a "maxi" if it's 60% shorter than the formal maxi limit, just like a 28 footer is not an "Open 40".

    The word "maxi" in this context came into sailing in the IOR years, as a reference to boats rating close to, or at, the IOR maximum permitted rating of 70.0. About 1980 we saw the first actual maxi class, with the formation of the ICAYA (now the Maxi association) There were some "mini maxi" events for boats around 60-70 feet LOA (50 to 60 rating, but they quite clearly separate from the "real" maxis like Kialoa and Bumblebee.

    The International Maxi Yacht Association rules now state that a "Maxi" is a yacht with an overall length between 24.09 and 30.50 metres (80 feet to 100 feet). A Volvo 70 is a "Mini Maxi". The world Mini Maxi champ, Bella Mente, is about as big as a VO 70.

    Rule B3 of the Open 60 class rules state "LENGTH OVERALL
    LOA shall be greater than 59 feet (17,983m) but not exceeding 60 feet (18,288m)". Rule 1 of Appendix Alpha of the International Maxi Association states that there shall be "a minimum LOA of 18.29 metres". So an Open 60 is NOT a maxi yacht, according to either the historical derivation of the term OR the ISAF approved rules of the Maxi Association and the Open 60 class.

    Even if we stretch the limit and count the VO 70s, so what? There have been about 20 of them built, over some six years. Add to that the 90-100 foot canters and we still come up with just 30 or so boats, of which about two thirds are 10-30 foot shorter than the limit and therefore not real maxis.

    Compare that to the previous eras, and what have we got?

    In the IOR era, we had vastly higher numbers of boats that rated at the maxi level. For example, in '89-90 there were 17 full-blown IOR maxis in the Whitbread alone, including over 10 new boats. Add to those the circuit-racing maxis of the day like Emeraude, Boomerang (II), Longobarda, Kialoa, Ondine, Il Moro Di Venezia III, Windward Passage II, Drumbeat, Matador 1, and older but still active maxis like Ragamuffin, Condor, Hammer, and also the 15 or so maxi sleds and we get 40+ active maxis without even trying hard.

    Move on to the brief IMS-maxi era of boats like Sagamore, Boomerang (III), Alexia, Sayonara, Idea, Morning Glory, Amazon, Brindabella (2), Broomstick, where there were more full-size maxis (C 80 footers) than there are full-size 100 foot canters. I'm not even going to bother looking at all the mini-maxis of that age, like Bumblebee V, Sotto Voce, Rrose Selevy ('99 version), Exile, Shining, Cannonball, Kodiak etc.

    There was then a time when there was no accepted limit for monohull offshore racing (i.e the Hobart, Fastnet and Bermuda classics all had different upper limits and the Maxi Yacht Association was very quiet), where we had boats like the three Z86s, Titan, Bols and other big Euro boats, the 80 and 90 foot Alfas, Nicorette, the 70' Wild Thing etc and then we arrived at the current situation.

    With about half a dozen boats built in about 7 years, the current all-out maxi scene (i.e. a canting keel racing boat built to the top end of the Maxi class rules and/or at the top end of the classic ocean racing circuit) is very quiet - there's been just one boat (Speedboat) built in five years, I think. Most of the 100 foot canters (Maximum Risk, WOXI, Maximus/Loyal, Nicorette) spend much more time ashore than afloat.

    But don't take it from me, take it from the first or second guy to build a 100 foot canter - "I would have loved to have built another 100-footer, but the level, quality and quantity of competition in this class is simply not at the level at which I would wish to continue competing....There are probably ten yachts in this class in the world that are competitive, but it has proven very hard to get a reasonable number of them, let alone all of them, together for the same event.

    "With Mini Maxis there will be more of them built and this means strong, more varied fleets, and that's the sort of racing in which I wish to compete.

    "I'm confident that the Mini Maxi class of yachts between 60 and 79 feet LOA will become very popular, with several yachts in this class being built, making for very some competitive sailing," Crichton added. "At the same time, this class of boat is still large enough, in the right event and under the right conditions to take line honours."
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ============
    CT, you conjured something out of my post that simply did not exist: I answered your first post right to the point which was "canters"-you even used the word four times. They are simply the fastest keelboats in most cases, Open 60, VOR 70, mini maxi or whatever: movable keels=speed. Right?
     
  9. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Doug- you highlighted my passage "the maxi canter is the least popular maxi type we've seen in offshore racing for 40 years" and then wrote "says you" with the same highlighting.

    What did you mean by that, if you were not taking issue with the claim that the maxi canter is the least popular maxi class???

    What other part of my post could your less-than-eloquent "says you" refer to?

    Do you dispute the information I posted about the entries? In that case, why not say so and what did the rest of your post have to do with my post?

    If your post about VO 70s and Open 60s did not relate to the Hobart and did not relate to the claim YOU HIGHLIGHTED about canting-keel maxis, then why did you go on about them?
     
  10. cardsinplay
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    cardsinplay da Vinci Group

    Can I get anyone a beverage and some popcorn while I'm up?
     
  11. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    No need, I'm outa here. :)
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    2010 Sydney-Hobart

    From Scuttlebutt Europe today:

    First Taste of the Sydney Hobart for Sir Robin


    Sir Robin Knox-Johnston will be racing for the first time in this year's Rolex Sydney Hobart Race. Sir Robin has been invited to race on a Nautor's Swan yacht joining Olympic medallist Mark Covell and British match racer / commentator Andy Green with owner Richard Dobbs on the British registered, Swan 68 Titania of Cowes. The yacht has travelled 17,000 nautical miles from Newport RI is the US to reach the Boxing Day start line in Sydney. Sir Robin was the first person to sail single handed, non-stop around the world finishing in 1969 and is still an active international big boat racer today.

    This will be the round the world record holder's first experience of this challenging blue water yacht race that annually attracts the international's racing elite. Titania has a seasoned crew along with Sir Robin who also proved himself in 1994 taking the Jules Verne Trophy, for the fastest circumnavigation of the world, co-skippering with Sir Peter Blake on Enza New Zealand.

    Sir Robin is looking forward to this particular race having been delighted by the invitation to complete his first Sydney Hobart on a Swan which was built back in 2000 at the Nautor's Swan yard in Finland.

    This particular Swan 68 has already raced successfully in the USA, Caribbean and Europe as Chippewa.
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    2010 Sydney-Hobart

    Prelude to the S-H?

    SOLAS Big Boat Race
    Twelve months ago, billionaire Bob Oatley's 100-foot supermaxi Wild Oats XI was beaten in the annual SOLAS Big Boat race on Sydney Harbour.

    Neville Crichton's Alfa Romeo won the day and two weeks later was first to Hobart.

    Yesterday, the crew of Wild Oats XI gave notice that this year they are out to snatch a fifth line honours victory in the 628-nautical mile Sydney to Hobart when they streeted the field in the 17th edition of the dash.

    From the moment the race started, Wild Oats XI, with Oatley, 83, at the wheel, simply powered away from the rest of the 18-strong fleet and had lapped several boats by the time it roared across the finish line off the Sydney Opera House only 75 minutes later.

    Sean Langman's recently relaunched Investec Loyal, with former surfing champion Layne Beachley and former Wallaby forwards Phil Waugh and Phil Kearns aboard, initially challenged Wild Oats XI for the lead but, after rounding the first mark only 15 seconds behind, gradually fell further behind.

    By the time Wild Oats XI finished, Investec Loyal was almost half the length of the harbour behind.

    But the 100-foot yacht, which Langman and partner Anthony Bell have spent a year rebuilding, showed she now has the speed to keep Wild Oats honest in a long offshore race and may have a chance of denying Oatley's yacht of its fifth Sydney-Hobart line honours trophy.

    The other two supermaxis in the fleet, Melbourne developer Grant Wharington's 98-foot Wild Thing and Peter Millard's 98-foot Lahana finished third and fourth. --
    The Australian, www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/

    www.cyca.com.au/editorial.asp?key=760
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    2010 Sydney-Hobart

    From Scuttlebutt Europe this morning:

    The Incredible Crew

    Wild Oats XI, the Rolex Sydney Hobart race record holder and winner of four consecutive line honours in five starts, will be crewed by one of the most talented teams imaginable when the big race starts on Sydney Harbour on Boxing Day.

    Owner Bob Oatley, in conjunction with skipper Mark Richards, has assembled some of the best ocean racing talent from Australia and New Zealand - 17 men and two women - for the 30-metre long supermaxi's bid for top honours in the 628 nautical mile classic. Between them they have a total of 201 Hobart races to their credit, and their background takes in almost every major event on the international sailing calendar - the Olympics, the America's Cup, the Volvo Ocean Race round the world, world championships and world records.

    Chances are that every ounce of this accumulated experience will be called on this year if the race forecast from yachting meteorologist Roger Badham holds true. His latest prognosis for what Wild Oats XI and other frontrunners can expect in Bass Strait predicts headwinds from the southwest of up to 40 knots and punishing seas. Such conditions will provide the ultimate test for yacht and crew and will almost certainly erase any chance of the race record - which was set at 1 day, 18 hours, 40 minutes and 10 seconds by Wild Oats XI in 2005 - being lowered.

    Of the crew aboard Wild Oats XI this year Steve Jarvin and Sven Runow claim the highest number of starts: 22 and 21 respectively. Navigator Adrienne Cahalan has 18 races behind her - a record for women who have contested the classic - Iain Murray 16 and co-navigator Ian 'Fresh' Burns 15. It will be skipper Mark Richards' seventh race south.

    Here is a potted profile of some of the Wild Oats XI crew:

    Iain Murray (Aus): Probably the best-known name in yachting in Australia. Winner of six consecutive 18ft skiff world championships; competed in the Star class in the last Olympics; winner of world keelboat championships and America's Cup competitor.

    Adrienne Cahalan (Aus): Internationally acclaimed ocean racing navigator (and mother of two young children). Australian Yachtswoman of the Year 2004-2005; four Sydney Hobart race line honours; navigator, Volvo Ocean Race round the world; Navigator aboard 125ft maxi catamaran 'Cheyenne' which broke the Round the World non-stop speed record in 2004 - 58 days, 9 hours, 32 minutes and 45 seconds.

    Ian 'Fresh' Burns (Aus): An outstanding navigator, sailor and yacht designer/engineer. Was the internationally acclaimed design coordinator for BMW ORACLE Racing, the revolutionary trimaran that won the America's Cup this year.

    Stu Bannatyne (NZ): Has raced around the world five times and is the only person to have won the Volvo Ocean race (previously the Whitbread Race) on three different classes of yacht - maxi ketch (New Zealand Endeavour), Volvo 60 (Illbruck) and VO70 (Ericsson). Recently named a watch captain for kiwi entry, Camper, for the next Volvo race. Tactician aboard Alfa Romeo when she took line honours in last year's Hobart race

    Robbie Naismith (NZ): Known as 'Battler'. Considered to be one of the best sail trimmers in the world. He has sailed in five America's Cups, four Volvo Ocean Races and contested almost every major offshore event in the world. Raced more than 250 days during the past 12 months.

    Matthew Mason (NZ): A highly experienced offshore sailor, boat builder and shore team manager with six America's Cups to his credit. -- Rob Kothe



    Go Wild Oats!
     

  15. Doug Lord
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    2010 Sydney-Hobart--Multihull entry??!!

    From the New Zealand Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10695882

    Yachting: Trimaran team eye Sydney to Hobart
    By Dana Johannsen 5:30 AM Wednesday Dec 22, 2010 Share3 Email
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    APNTeamVodafoneSailing are facing a big challenge this summer as they look to overturn a ban from entering next year's Sydney to Hobart yacht race.

    The team have had their sights set on entering the race since their giant 60-foot trimaran was relaunched in August this year under the Vodafone banner.

    They were unable to get ready in time for this year's race which gets under way on Boxing Day. There are no New Zealand entries among this year's 90 participants.

    But skipper Simon Hull was hopeful his team would be able to line up in next year's race and had filed a written application to the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia (CYCA) to participate in the Sydney to Southport race in July next year and the Sydney to Hobart at the end of the year.

    Hull received a one-line response from the club which amounted to a resounding "no".

    "The CYCA is a monohull racing club and as such a trimaran would be unable to participate in the Audi Sydney Gold Coast Yacht Race," said sailing manager Justine Kirkjian in the club's emailed reply.

    Hull's application to compete in the Hobart, sent in August, has not yet been acknowledged.

    Hull, who imported the Orma 60 racing yacht from Europe two years ago, finds the CYCA's unwavering position "perplexing".

    "It just seems an extremely conservative and staid approach to take and it really flies in the face of the way yachting has moved over the last 10-15 years," he said.

    "All the local yacht clubs now seem to have woken up and realised that multihulls are here to stay and are actively accepting and embracing multihulls into the fold, whereas CYCA seem to be acting otherwise."

    Multihulls were successfully integrated into the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron's race fleet several years ago and monohulls and multihulls have raced side by side in the Coastal Classic, New Zealand's largest yacht race, for several years.

    This year America's Cup holders BMW Oracle announced plans to break with 153-years of monohull racing tradition and stage the next regatta in 2013 in catamarans.

    Hull plans to have further discussions with the club.

    "Somebody has to start the ball rolling and start asking questions and challenging the thinking.

    "Even the America's Cup is in multihulls now, so I'm quite surprised the Australians are so far behind the eight ball."

    Hull said if they were unable to get the CYCA to budge, TeamVodafone would do what many other multihull yachts had done over the years and race regardless as a "pirate entry".
    By Dana Johannsen | Email Dana
    ==============

    I think it would be wonderful for sailing to see multihulls in the Sydney-Hobart-good luck to Mr. Hull. Like he says somebody has to start the ball rolling.....DL


    pix-Vodaphone--click on image:
     

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