1999 Honda 90hp major problems. Please advise :)

Discussion in 'Outboards' started by Mr Mojo Risin, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. Mr Mojo Risin
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: scotland

    Mr Mojo Risin New Member

    Hi there, new to this forum so any help would be most appreciated as im in a bit of a fix here.

    Was about about 6 miles out in my boat last night and driving about 3700rpm when the engine (honda 90 1999 model i think) suddenly lost power and changed tone into sounding basically like a bag of crap. It went loud noisey (not clunky just noisey)and i switched it straight off and gathered my thoughts then started it and revved up (to it to about 2500rpm maybe) for about 10-20 secs to try decide what the noise was. I then switched it back off and lifted the cover and checked the dipstick only to find that the oil was pretty frothy/going whitish which made me panic a little as ive just spent more or less all my savings on the boat/engine and know when oil goes like this its not good.

    Any ideas as to whats wrong and what parts i could potentially need to repair it? Im capable of fixing minor problems but havent got a clue about boat engines.


    I know im new here so please me for being a bit ignorant and wading in with some questions but im really in need of some help from people who know about these things. Any more details needed please ask me and i'll fill you in. cheers
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    What you describe looks like water in the oil. There can be many causes, from a bad gasket to a crack in the block or the head. At this point, taking the head off is the first step to check it out. If you work in automotive engines will find the mechanical parts similar.
     
  3. Mr Mojo Risin
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: scotland

    Mr Mojo Risin New Member

    hi there thanks for replying:)

    i'll order up a gasket kit and have a looksy under the head and check for any obvious damage/scores. could the change in noise be caused by something as simple as a head gasket? its hard to describe the noise it made but sudden power loss and instead of the 'brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr' noise it kindof changed to a 'loud buuuuuuuuuuh' noise. i hope it something simple as ive not left much cash spare for repairs (sods law).

    any other feedback would be great -cheers-
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Cyl. head gasket if you´re happy. But thats a guesstimation only. So, I would´nt buy anything before the head is removed.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  5. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Pretoria South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Mojo be very carefull, the Honda is a complicated motor with a complicated head (V-Tec et al)

    it should be opened by an experienced technician

    almost 100% sure that is water in the oil - BEEEEEG PROBLEM not to be underestimated

    sorry pal outch :(
     
  6. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    no dont take the head off that destroys the evidence ...bring each cylinder up to tdc and apply compressed air to each cylinder in turn via a plug adaptor ....listen and look where it leaks out and which cylinder .......not as good but a compression test may tell you which cylinder is the suspect one ....

    If it was head gasket you would be looking at water getting into the oil return gallery to the sump ( oil returned after lubricating the valve gear ) ......

    If you spent money on a repair at a shop that has gone bad you may have a claim for them to fix it ....
     
  7. Rangerspeedboat
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Texas

    Rangerspeedboat Senior Member

    Always start with the cheapest part that could be the a problem causer.

    Water in oil....not a good thing.
     
  8. Mr Mojo Risin
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: scotland

    Mr Mojo Risin New Member

    again, thanks for the replies :)

    i can get a compression tester from my local garage if i need one. should i give this a shot? i wasnt sure whether to restart it incase it made the problem even worse? my local mechanic said i should use the tester and if all the compression readings are the same its not the cylinder head (or was it the other way round? lol i was lightly tipsy when he was explaining last night in the pub!)

    would i be safer just sticking to pistonbrokes advice and trying to track down an airline adaptor and testing for leaks that way?

    i understand this job really should be repaired by a pro but thats really as last resort for me as ive just blew all my savings on the bloody boat so im hoping to wing it through this on my limited funds and knowledge (and you guys advice!). I do have friends who are motor mechanics but none have much experience in outboard motors apart from the odd carb clean or that kiondof thing.. The head is going to be removed to diagnose the problem so im going to have to buy a gasket kit either way?
     
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No, do´nt buy anything! As mentioned above it might be even more than a leaking gasket. If the block is cracked for what do you need a resealed head?
    Do the compression test first. We´ll see.........

    Regards
    Richard
     
  10. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    A compression test will not give you an indication of a bad gasket or crack, unless they are in the combustion chamber. Very often the leak is at the other areas of the gasket.
     
  11. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Pretoria South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Interesting topic

    firstly ALL THE ABOVE IS CORRECT thanks guys it also gets my old brain going again :D

    on this type of motor the possibility of a cracked block is very low
    a warped head and leaking head gasket high possibility
    a welsh plug of sorts leaking, if it exists in this motor also high

    leaking head gaskets could occur easily on a outboard after over heating which was not notice (or denied) by the previous owner :(

    http://www.honda-marine.com/modeldetail.aspx?modelGroup=bf90efi

    these motors were also used by one of my favourite reads "C-Dory"

    http://www.geocities.com/bill_fiero/

    somewhere along the line they were told that it would be cheaper to buy new motors rather than to repair, because they obviously got their usasge out of it.

    i found this manual - BE WARNED - 1139 PAGES

    http://www.psytronix.org/honda/manuals/Honda_Civic_02-03_EP3_ServiceManual.pdf

    THE BLOOMIN MANUAL IS PASSWORD PROTECTED
    so you cant print any pages

    The pages that spell danger are 96 to 106 which shows you the head assembly - it is complicated to say the least

    once again DO NOT attempt this if you have not been trained
    sorry for my french - but you are gonna fu3k it up - AND it gonna hurt BAD
     
  12. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Gonzo if the Head Gasket is gone to a point that you have water in the oil I doubt that your compression is correct.
    And the Head Gasket IS sealing the combustion chamber right?

    Regards
    Richard
     
  13. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    read my lips ...compressed air into the plug holes and see/listen where it comes out ..shut off air and see how fast the pressure falls on each cylinder ...sounds like a leak between the water feed to the head and the return for the valve gear lub oil to the sump ...these are only car engines on end ....
     

  14. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Pretoria South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    i tried to play with the PDF but my "hacking" skill's are no good :D

    so i just took pics of the manual (btw the manual is very interesting)

    enjoy
     

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